Alas, alas, it's all in the details.......or maybe, just maybe, ignoring the details.
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| Let's count the stupidity here. http://ellegon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12744 |
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| Author: | joelr [ Mon May 04, 2009 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Let's count the stupidity here. |
Just for the record: this is actually a little simplified -- I've compressed two calls into one -- and I've munged at least the names and places, at least just a little. At least much of this is fictional, but my name really is Joel Rosenberg; beyond that, you pays your money, and you takes your chances . . . So there I was, minding my own business, when the phone rang; I glanced at the Caller ID thingee to see if I wanted to interrupt what I was doing. Private Number. Hmmm... I know a few people in the military, but I don't remember meeting a Private Number. Major Payne, sure, and I know Corporal Punishment far too well, and occasionally use a General Facility, but I don't know this private. Well, why not . . . "Joel Rosenberg." "Is this Joel Rosenberg?" No, I just said that because it impresses people, and I don't know how to pronounce 'Robert Redford'. I tried again: "Joel Rosenberg." "I, err, I . . . " I'll leave out the stammering. He gave out a name, and while you probably don't want to know it, I'm not writing it mainly because I don't want to remember it. John Robertson or Bob Johnson or some interchangeable Scandahoovian derivative that probably ought to be Arnie Selmo. "I got a problem with my carry permit." "When did you take the class from me?" I knew he didn't, honest; I've been through this before. "At Duck Hill, last year?" Do we get three tries? "I haven't done a class at Duck for two, three years." "Well, I guess it might have been some other guy, but I got a problem." Which, of course, is my problem exactly why? I'll spare you the discussion as to who he really took his class from and why (after all, they're all certified by the DPS, right?) nd he ended up calling me; it's stupid and boring and you've all heard this before. "Well, I got arrested for carrying without a permit, and -- " "Okay. Hold one." This is a 'problem with a carry permit?' If you'd stabbed a bunch of people to death would that have been 'a problem with a sharpened salad fork?' "You have a carry permit -- " "Yeah. I got Utah, it's -- " "Yeah, I know, it's cheaper than Minnesota. So you got arrested by some cop who didn't know that? You really need to call a lawyer. Are you calling from jail?" I mean, shit, I'm hard-hearted as can be, and I think the nice folks who sign up to take their carry class with the guy who has the exclusive at Duck deserve what they get, but I've got an agenda around cops in Minnesota knowing our state accepts other permits, and I may have to point this idiot to a lawyer -- "No, not in Minnesota. In Denver." "You're in jail in Colorado." "No. I got <i>arrested</i> in Colorado. But I'm in Waconia." Well, I'm pretty sure I know what happened. Colorado changed their law a year or two back -- they no longer accept Utah permits except for Utah residents, and they don't accept the Minnesota permit (which this moron doesn't have anyway) because our Commissioner of Public Safety refused to accept Colorado permits here. Hissy-fits at the top levels of the DPS; gotta love it. I guess I should have just shut him up at this point, but I was finding this fascinating . . . So this guy carries on his Utah permit in Colorado, and gets pulled over "for nothing" -- I am sure that there are cops who pull people over for legally insufficient and/or downright evil reasons*, but I'm skeptical about the "for nothing" -- and he volunteers that he's got a gun, and things get all shrieky and gun pointy and arresty, and he gets his gun seized, and then either sent on his way at the scene with some sort of summons or booked and released (he didn't go into detail, and I didn't want him to) and instead of calling a lawyer in Colorado, he just heads home, and it takes about five minutes to get this out of him, because apparently I'm supposed to be Doing Something about him having gone home and now getting some sort of threatening paper from Colorado, talking about interstate flight and he called his instructor who pointed to the nice disclaimer on his website and all, and sure, enough, there is a disclaimer on the guy's website, so maybe -- And I can't get him to shut up. So I remembered something that my boss, back when I was a security clerk, used to do to shut people up. (He was a cop, and I'm not, but it did get attention.) "Hey. Before this goes any farther, I've got to tell you something." "But, it's real important. My sister says -- " "You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney, and if you cannot afford an -- " "Ohmygod. You're a cop?" "No. I'm not a cop, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a guy who you called and are running your mouth off to, and not a damn thing you've told me is privileged, and if some cop calls me about it I've got to hire my own attorney before I decide whether or not to say anything, so get a lawyer. Now. Don't tell me anything more; just call a good criminal lawyer, and shut up." "Who should I call?" I probably should have just hung up, but I gave him a name, but I'm pretty sure he's going to talk to a lot of other people and find somebody to tell him how to handle this better than some lawyer would; 70-30 the lawyer never hears from him. There are days when I wish I had gone to law school. Today isn't one of them. So, other than not reading the disclaimer well enough, what stupid things did this guy do? |
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| Author: | Scott Hughes [ Mon May 04, 2009 5:38 pm ] |
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Alas, alas, it's all in the details.......or maybe, just maybe, ignoring the details.
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| Author: | kecker [ Mon May 04, 2009 5:44 pm ] |
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Well hell, after reading through that, it might be easier discussing the intelligent things he did....although on that note I'm coming up short, so yeah, your idea is better. And on that topic, given his track record, I'm willing to bet a box of ammo, he rolled out of bed in a rather stupid fashion. |
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| Author: | Erik_Pakieser [ Mon May 04, 2009 5:47 pm ] |
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Not that I want to put my hand into this bucket of tar, BUT.... When I lived in Colorado (1990-1992) there was an exception in the state law which allowed carry in your private vehicle. A friend of mine, who worked at a gun shop, got arrested for carrying w/o a permit and successfully went to court using the "private vehicle" exception. Usual disclaimers apply, and I don't want to get involved any further 
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| Author: | Scott Hughes [ Mon May 04, 2009 6:01 pm ] |
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Hey Joel, You need to put those people on hold with Muzak playing in background 
Maybe part of the Harry Nilsson song: Quote: You put the lime in the coconut, drink them both up, You put the lime in the coconut, drink them both up, You put the lime in the coconut, drink them both up, Put the lime in the coconut, you such a silly person!, Put the lime in the coconut, drink them both together, Put the lime in the coconut, then you feel better. Put the lime in the coconut, drink them both down Put the lime in the coconut, and call a LAWYER in the morning  I don't know if it would work in every instance, but it might be fun to try  
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| Author: | joelr [ Mon May 04, 2009 6:42 pm ] |
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Well, that it would. (And, just to be clear, on the rare occasions when any of my students run into problems, or -- more often, questions -- I want them to call me; that's part of the deal.) I don't remember signing up to help out the Coconut Charlie types' students, largely because, well, I never did. |
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| Author: | MostlyHarmless [ Mon May 04, 2009 8:14 pm ] |
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I draw these conclusions: 1) Some people just don't know when to lawyer up. Or, for that matter, when to listen to an attorney and when to ignore them. 2) The complexity of carry laws, the patchwork of differences among jurisdictions, and the grave penalties work against people whose greatest gifts are not in the cognitive arena. 3) It's tough being a celebrity. |
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| Author: | JonL [ Mon May 04, 2009 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Let's count the stupidity here. |
joelr wrote: Just for the record: ... my name really is Joel Rosenberg ... It was probably a misunderstanding...it's obvious he thought you were the Joell Rosinburg who drills bowling balls and sells nutritional supplements and ... 
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| Author: | jignjam [ Mon May 04, 2009 9:08 pm ] |
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Now don't get me wrong because I feel your pain, but not everybody from Waconia is an idiot allthough Coconutcharlie isn't helping 
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| Author: | joelr [ Mon May 04, 2009 9:12 pm ] |
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jignjam wrote: Now don't get me wrong because I feel your pain, but not everybody from Waconia is an idiot allthough Coconutcharlie isn't helping |
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| Author: | mrokern [ Mon May 04, 2009 9:46 pm ] |
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Is there anybody teaching at Duck Hill that isn't a buddy of Coconut Charlie? It sure seems that the answer is a negative from Google results... |
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| Author: | joelr [ Tue May 05, 2009 4:55 am ] |
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mrokern wrote: Is there anybody teaching at Duck Hill that isn't a buddy of Coconut Charlie? It sure seems that the answer is a negative from Google results... |
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| Author: | joelr [ Tue May 05, 2009 5:17 am ] |
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MostlyHarmless wrote: I draw these conclusions: 1) Some people just don't know when to lawyer up. Or, for that matter, when to listen to an attorney and when to ignore them. 2) The complexity of carry laws, the patchwork of differences among jurisdictions, and the grave penalties work against people whose greatest gifts are not in the cognitive arena. 3) It's tough being a celebrity. I think many people don't know how to talk, or not talk. If you've decided, say, to give a cop your address (and I can't see a lot of harm in doing that, if asked), there's no reason to turn it into a long interrogation, and have him have to ask, separately, about the street, the number, and the city. On the other hand, volunteering that you're carrying (when not required or obviously sensible) carries some risks with it. Why roll the dice when you don't have to? Beyond that, the fact is that carrying in another state isn't a straightforward thing, on the rare occasions when the gun becomes an issue. While the content is now wrong, wrong, and wrong -- Quote: If you are a resident of Minnesota, or 47 other states and obtain a resident permit for your state, Michigan will recognize it and that gives you 36 states when you combine a Utah, Florida, Connecticut and Maine non-resident permit. (Verify before carrying). Combined, and taking into account similar states where those permits are valid, you would be able to carry in 36 states. -- (no, you can't carry in 36 states if you're a MN resident; a Master Instructor should have mastered the art of counting, you know) the disclaimer on Gary Shade's site is right: you really should check for yourself, and not accept that you can carry in 36 states, just because his website claims, variously, that it's a 35 state or 36 state carry class -- both West Virginia and Colorado have gone away for most of us. (Yes, if you're a Minnesota resident, get your Utah permit and then move to Utah, you'll be able to carry in Colorado, but . . . ) And not consulting a lawyer after being arrested? Sheesh. |
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| Author: | Moby Clarke [ Tue May 05, 2009 11:49 am ] |
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Why don't I get those calls? I love prank calls as much as the next guy. I would have loved to have been a part of that. Man, you get all the fun, Joel. What a lucky guy. |
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| Author: | joelr [ Tue May 05, 2009 2:56 pm ] |
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Moby Clarke wrote: Why don't I get those calls? |
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