Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:33 pm

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 10 posts ] 
 An email to "Magnum Mikie" 
Author Message
 Post subject: An email to "Magnum Mikie"
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:09 am 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
His real name and email address have been redacted; I hope he'll think that's fair.

And before folks start popping off about publishing private emails, please read it. I'll bold the permission part, if necessary.

Quote:
On the contrary, myself along with a few members of your forum, thought (and still think) Joe's class was more than sufficient. At least that's what they told me in the PM's they sent.

As matter-of-fact, one member of your forum mentioned that he doesn't post questions regarding carry on your forum because of the intimidating responses from yourself and Andrew (mostly Andrew).
Sniff. I think I'm much more intimidating than Andrew. Then again, I don't default to that, either. I like newbie questions, after all, and am pretty patient with the sorts of folks who don't understand a simple, declarative sentence the first time. Either.
Quote:
Another member says he thinks the forum has evolved into an "instructors" forum in which the instructors are trying to "Jockey for position on the Totum Pole". Like you always say: I don't make this stuff up.

Yeah. Lots of folks can't spell well. And lots of people think others have to chase after their red herrings.
Quote:
Btw, being a "public" forum that it is, shouldn't your forum be open for ALL permit holders to freely ask questions?

Nope. Only folks who register can post. Otherwise, we get inundated with spammers. Read the rules.
Quote:
Or is it just for students that took classes from instructors that are members?

No, it isn't; again, read the rules. That said, it's not intended to be the aftermarket support for inadequate instructors, either. My cell phone isn't, either.
Quote:
And, I still think the video idea is a good one. What harm could it possibly cause? This video (sold for a pre-determined price) could be used as a refresher to any/all instructors students who may have forgotten some of the class content. You have to admit, there's lots of stuff covered in a PTC class. Remember what you, yourself said: Nobody can remember everything, NOBODY.
You're right. I said it, and I'm right, too. So: go ahead -- make it happen. It sounds like a lot of work and a fair amount of expense, but, hey, I'll be happy to ride behind and let you get the bugs on your windshield.

But, wait. You're not offering to do the work, are you? You're offering to have others do a lot of work, for your convenience, after persuading them that it's not all that much work to satisfy your needs.

Cool. Well, not very.
Quote:
I'm in no way defensive of Joe's class.
Yeah, you do keep saying things to that effect, don't you?
Quote:

He was my second instructor and compared to the first, was a breath of fresh air. Outside of Joe's yard maintenance, friendly dog, hard chairs and sub-standard website, I have yet to hear any confirmed evidence that his class content is anything but above average.
I sure hope that's not true. Yucko.
Quote:
Finally, I recently had a friend read the Coconut Charlie thread. His opinion is that it's all about money. He thinks a few instructors on your forum are jealous of Joe's success.

Yeah; I know. Joe Penaz and Gary Shade are pitching that notion pretty heavy, and you know what they say about what's born every day.
Quote:
Anyways, feel free to post this email on the forum if you so choose. Without editing please.

Sure. I won't change a word of yours; I will interpose my responses (and I just did, and even tweaked them some) even if you think that that's editing.

Fair enough, I hope.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: An email to "Magnum Mikie"
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:03 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2264
Location: Eden Prairie
Quote:
Btw, being a "public" forum that it is, shouldn't your forum be open for ALL permit holders to freely ask questions?

Quote:
Or is it just for students that took classes from instructors that are members?


There's an easy answer here. Try to find someone here who will rant against any of BPR's classes. Last I checked, Roger and Sue weren't posting around these parts.

So no, it's not just for students of members.

Quote:

He was my second instructor and compared to the first, was a breath of fresh air. Outside of Joe's yard maintenance, friendly dog, hard chairs and sub-standard website, I have yet to hear any confirmed evidence that his class content is anything but above average.


Who was the first?

Quote:
Finally, I recently had a friend read the Coconut Charlie thread. His opinion is that it's all about money. He thinks a few instructors on your forum are jealous of Joe's success.


I can't speak for everyone, but I can assure you that I've yet to meet someone around here who is jealous of another instructor's success...Joe's or anyone else's.

-Mark


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: An email to "Magnum Mikie"
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:08 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
Magnum Mike wrote:
...one member of your forum mentioned that he doesn't post questions regarding carry on your forum because of the intimidating responses from yourself and Andrew (mostly Andrew).


I'd love to see some (any) specific examples of this "intimidation" you speak of.

Oh, but forget any examples of "I'm too lazy to do any work myself, so someone do it for me" queries -- I am happy to help someone who can't find an answer, but not so much someone who refuses to try. :roll:

My five- and seven-year-old know that daddy will help them with a task, but not before they try their best to do it themselves. And you know what? It turns out that the seven-year-old can tie her own shoes, and the five-year-old can turn an inside-out shirt right-side-out, all by himself.



"The consuming desire of most human beings is deliberately to plant their whole life in the hands of some other person. I would describe this method of searching for happiness as immature. Development of character consists solely in moving toward self-sufficiency."
- Quentin Crisp

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Last edited by Andrew Rothman on Mon May 18, 2009 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: An email to "Magnum Mikie"
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:08 am 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
mrokern wrote:
Quote:
Btw, being a "public" forum that it is, shouldn't your forum be open for ALL permit holders to freely ask questions?

Quote:
Or is it just for students that took classes from instructors that are members?


There's an easy answer here. Try to find someone here who will rant against any of BPR's classes. Last I checked, Roger and Sue weren't posting around these parts.
Alas. The sneaky types will bitch about them endlessly behind their backs -- not on the Forum -- and say that nobody else dares to criticize because they'll be 86ed from the range if they did. Which is, in my opinion, unmitigated horseshit.

I don't criticize them, because I think they do a good job. I've said that to their face and behind their backs, happily. We do have some differences and disagreements on some minor issues -- which I've argued about, endlessly, with Sue and Bob (Roger doesn't argue much) in the lounge at BPR -- but that's a difference in orientation, not them (or, for that matter, me) being wrong.

(In fact, with her permission, I long ago swiped Sue's "personal nuclear bomb" bit, and incorporated it into TCCarry. I keep nagging her to sit in on the class and see how I use it, but she's awfully busy.)

I wish they'd participate more in the Forum, mind you, but I don't think that's a criticism of their classes.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: An email to "Magnum Mikie"
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:16 am 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Magnum Mike wrote:
...one member of your forum mentioned that he doesn't post questions regarding carry on your forum because of the intimidating responses from yourself and Andrew (mostly Andrew).


I'd love to see some (any) specific examples of this "intimidation" you speak of.
Well, it didn't happen on the Forum, but there was that bunch of punk kids who suggested to you that your own children weren't all that cute, and who you took behind the barn, at which point you strung one up by an ankle and worked him over with a baseball bat, and then, even before the body cooled, you turned to the others and asked, "Now, let's try this again: are there any kids cuter than mine?"

I think that counts.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: An email to "Magnum Mikie"
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:23 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
joelr wrote:
Well, it didn't happen on the Forum, but there was that bunch of punk kids who suggested to you that your own children weren't all that cute, and who you took behind the barn, at which point you strung one up by an ankle and worked him over with a baseball bat, and then, even before the body cooled, you turned to the others and asked, "Now, let's try this again: are there any kids cuter than mine?"


Well, yeah, but they were just plain wrong. My kids are, objectively, the cutest in the seven-county metro. They're entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. :P

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:24 am 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
I'm not saying that you're wrong, mind you -- I wouldn't dare -- I'm just saying that was just a little . . . intimidating.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:33 am 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
For those who missed the point, above: disagreeing with the management, hereabouts, is just fine. That said, abuse masked as disagreement is likely to get one talked about.

You could ask the few folks who have managed to get Rule Zeroed out of here -- but, to be painfully fair, Penaz isn't one of them. He doesn't get to have his wife fight his verbal battles in his basement here under his name -- that's pretty awful, and I won't have any part of it; he can do that in email, if he'd like -- but he can toddle on down to any local library and do it there, if he'd like.

I'll not be holding my breath.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:44 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Saint Paul
I've certainly not seen the intimidation mentioned. I also don't see this as a forum only for instructors and students of those instructors. The instructor I took my class from doesn't frequent this forum as far as I know. I might be wrong but if he does I'm not aware of it.

And finally, I wouldn't take (Joe's/coconut charlie's) class simply BECAUSE of his web site. That web site is/will be most people's first impression of him and his class. The web site is so bad and unprofessional I wouldn't even consider taking the class. The choice of layout, fonts and colors is just annoying. Not to mention that I can't stand sites that scroll endlessly. Use some anchor points, menus, etc. And for me, one of the biggest red flags is the mentioning of completely irrelevant content, things like: amsoil dealer, scuba training, bowling instructor, licensed pilot and aircraft owner, commercial drivers license, teaching guitar, piano and voice!! None of it means anything from a permit to carry perspective and to me just screams "I'm really insecure about my carry class so look at all the other stuff!!"

His class could be free and after being so annoyed with the web site I honestly don't think I would take the class other than as a source of amusement and would skp the range portion all together.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:00 pm 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
340PD wrote:
And for me, one of the biggest red flags is the mentioning of completely irrelevant content, things like: amsoil dealer, scuba training, bowling instructor, licensed pilot and aircraft owner, commercial drivers license, teaching guitar, piano and voice!! None of it means anything from a permit to carry perspective and to me just screams "I'm really insecure about my carry class so look at all the other stuff!!"
I think so. I don't claim to know, other than by all the indirect information that's come my way and that we've discussed endlessly, how bad it really is, and don't doubt Magnum Mikie's claim that his first class, at Bill's, was worse. Really, I don't.

But . . .

I think a lot of the defensiveness that Joe shows is indicative of something. It might just be a clever salesman trying to distract folks to pay attention to the lost engines in the airplanes, the no doubt well-drilled bowling balls, and the representation of himself as a "professional scuba diver"; the harping on his long-vanished AACFI and MADFI credentials; the Marko Kloos quote* that he initially passed off without any acknowledgment whatsoever that the words weren't his, and . . .

Well, you get the picture.

It means something. Distraction? Panic? Other things? I dunno.

But it means something.

______________________
* And it's very well-written. That wasn't the only reason I knew, at first glance, that neither of the Penazes had written it -- I'd seen it before.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 10 posts ] 

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group