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 Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself 
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 Post subject: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:24 pm 
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You know, I don't really think, honest, that when the poor, deluded fools walk down the rickety steps into Joe Penaz's basement, the door bangs shut behind them, they're clubbed over the head, and they wake, like a scene out of Pulp Fiction, strapped to the apparently very uncomfortable chairs with ball gags in their mouths (and God knows what the dog is doing; I only heard about the dog when Mikie mentioned it), only to be lobotomized, rather than, well, you know . . .

. . . .but there are days. Some days, I get the feeling that an MIT Magna Cum Laude could walk down those steps and stagger back out, three hours later, with the IQ of Forrest Gump, but without the charm.

But maybe a lot of them just staggered down the steps already as dumb and as eager to learn as a bag of hammers.

Take Mikie.

For those who painfully endured the painfully long and now-ended career of Magnum Mikie carrying water for Mango Joe Penaz over here, well, welcome to my life. For the past years I've had the unwanted, unsolicited and unwelcome honor of being the post-class support for Joe Penaz's students. Usually, it's been by phone, and the common opening used to be, "Joe said I should call you with this, since ya know a lot about this stuff?"

This stuff almost (let's leave the permit denials and the guy popped for soliciting a hooker for another time) invariably turned out to be something that any decent Minnesota carry class should cover -- often about where you can and can't carry.

And Mikie just did that sort of thing over at the day care site. It hurt to watch, and I did a mean thing: I answered a simple -- albeit overly complicated and poorly-expressed -- question in detail. And kept at it . . . until the owners of the day care site, for whatever reason (I think that they don't like accurate information over there, but it's just a suspicion; maybe they were trying to save me from myself, for which I am . . . mildly scornful) locked the thread down.

And, of course, I heard from Mikie. But that's another story for another day. It's not that interesting, although his latest email . . . well, let's save that.

Let's start at the beginning.

Over the day care site, Mikie wrote the following; just to make things easy, I'm going to put Mikie's words in green, and leave mine be.:

Quote:
The other day I stopped into Byerly's in Chanhassen and happen to notice the in-store Post Office as I walked in the door. Needless to say, I continued buying a few items while carrying concealed. Just curious if Byerly's is considered a "federal" building because of the in-store USPS. Any opinions? Thanks!
Much ignorance was posted. I've save it for future reference, in case it goes into the bit bin, but let's skip down to where I answered.


Quote:
Re: Carry in a in-store Post Office.......

http://www.jhu.edu/~postofc/usps30/cs30home.html

Definition: Contract Postal Units (CPUs) are stations or branches operated under contract (with the US Postal Service)
by persons who are not postal employees.

No good deed, of course, goes unpunished, and Mikie shot back with another Penaz-student question, complete with the usual scorn for, well, knowledge and all.
Quote:

Thank you, really! Your response qualifies you for the *GRAND PRIZE*. You're now eligible for a one-year premium subscription at twincitiescarry.com 8-) .

Now, if you'd like a chance at the *SUPER GRAND PRIZE*, maybe you could respond to the following scenario:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I work-out at the Chanhassen Rec Center a couple times a week. The Rec Center building is directly connected to Bluff Creek Elementary School. The school and Rec Center share the same hallway that takes me to the exercise room. I usually work-out over lunch hour and have to be careful to not step on these little rascals while getting to-and-from my work-out. The million dollar question: Is it legal to carry in the Rec Center?


Sigh. Here we go again. I explain, and even bold the obvious stuff to emphasize the obvious stuff: the Rec Center isn't a school. You don't have to beware of "school cooties" when you're legally carrying; you just got to stay out of schools, other than in special cases.

So I responded.
Quote:
The statute appears awfully clear, doesn't it? Emphasis is added.

Subd. 1d.Possession on school property; penalty.

(a) Except as provided under paragraphs (c) and (e), whoever possesses, stores, or keeps a dangerous weapon or uses or brandishes a replica firearm or a BB gun while knowingly on school property is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than two years or to payment of a fine of not more than $5,000, or both.

(b) Whoever possesses, stores, or keeps a replica firearm or a BB gun on school property is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

(c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) or (b), it is a misdemeanor for a person authorized to carry a firearm under the provisions of a permit or otherwise to carry a firearm on or about the person's clothes or person in a location the person knows is school property. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this paragraph is not subject to forfeiture.

(d) As used in this subdivision:

(1) "BB gun" means a device that fires or ejects a shot measuring .18 of an inch or less in diameter;

(2) "dangerous weapon" has the meaning given it in section 609.02, subdivision 6;

(3) "replica firearm" has the meaning given it in section 609.713; and

(4) "school property" means:

(i) a public or private elementary, middle, or secondary school building and its improved grounds, whether leased or owned by the school;

(ii) a child care center licensed under chapter 245A during the period children are present and participating in a child care program;

(iii) the area within a school bus when that bus is being used by a school to transport one or more elementary, middle, or secondary school students to and from school-related activities, including curricular, cocurricular, noncurricular, extracurricular, and supplementary activities; and

(iv) that portion of a building or facility under the temporary, exclusive control of a public or private school, a school district, or an association of such entities where conspicuous signs are prominently posted at each entrance that give actual notice to persons of the school-related use....

Happy to help, of course.


Again: this is something that any decent Minnesota carry class should cover. It's obvious; it's easy. I'm not sure whether Penaz doesn't know it or can't teach it, but this isn't the first time that one of his folks has asked me just that question. Really. This time, sure, it's my fault that I took the question, but it's pretty typical.

Mikie can't let that be.

Quote:
Yes, the statute is clear for lawyers to decipher. IMO, there is a grayish area in this scenario. It's very possible that the Rec Center building "itself" is owned by the City Of Chanhassen and not leased from the school. Would you be so kind as to explain in layman's words so us less fortunate individuals...........without a law degree can understand?
Sigh. He's playing the government card. What he -- and he's not alone among Penaz students -- get is that the law is pretty clear (well, actually, utterly clear) that the City of Chanhassen doesn't get to play games.

So, glutton for punishment, I try to help.
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, the statute is clear for lawyers to decipher.


Not a bad idea to have access to good legal advice, that's for sure. In some cases, what's clear from the statute is less clear when looking at the case law around the statute, and the combination of legal training and access to, say, Westlaw can be kind of handy. In my opinion, of course; you certainly could choose to think otherwise.

Quote:
IMO, there is a grayish area in this scenario.


You're certainly entitled to your own opinions, of course, and it's really not a terribly rare question -- I've gotten calls on that sort of thing (that particular Rec Center only once, as I recall) from time to time, from another instructor's students. There's folks who go all verklempt over it.

Quote:
It's very possible that the Rec Center building "itself" is owned by the City Of Chanhassen and not leased from the school.


This key passage in the carry law might be of some help to you. Or not.

Quote:
No ... government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may ... limit the exercise of a permit to carry.

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Last edited by joelr on Mon May 25, 2009 10:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:03 pm 
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joelr wrote:
Quote:
Yes, the statute is clear for lawyers to decipher. IMO, there is a grayish area in this scenario. It's very possible that the Rec Center building "itself" is owned by the City Of Chanhassen and not leased from the school. Would you be so kind as to explain in layman's words so us less fortunate individuals...........without a law degree can understand?
Sigh. He's playing the government card. What he -- and he's not alone among Penaz students -- get is that the law is pretty clear (well, actually, utterly clear) that the City of Chanhassen doesn't get to play games.


Joel, you've been holding out on us. When did you get a law degree, and why did Mikie know before we did? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:09 pm 
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mrokern wrote:
joelr wrote:
Quote:
Yes, the statute is clear for lawyers to decipher. IMO, there is a grayish area in this scenario. It's very possible that the Rec Center building "itself" is owned by the City Of Chanhassen and not leased from the school. Would you be so kind as to explain in layman's words so us less fortunate individuals...........without a law degree can understand?
Sigh. He's playing the government card. What he -- and he's not alone among Penaz students -- get is that the law is pretty clear (well, actually, utterly clear) that the City of Chanhassen doesn't get to play games.


Joel, you've been holding out on us. When did you get a law degree, and why did Mikie know before we did? :wink:
Hey, if I'm going to start correcting all of Mikie's errors, let's agree on a simple progression: a penny for the first, two cents for the second, 4 for the third, and so on . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:11 pm 
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joelr wrote:
mrokern wrote:
joelr wrote:
Quote:
Yes, the statute is clear for lawyers to decipher. IMO, there is a grayish area in this scenario. It's very possible that the Rec Center building "itself" is owned by the City Of Chanhassen and not leased from the school. Would you be so kind as to explain in layman's words so us less fortunate individuals...........without a law degree can understand?
Sigh. He's playing the government card. What he -- and he's not alone among Penaz students -- get is that the law is pretty clear (well, actually, utterly clear) that the City of Chanhassen doesn't get to play games.


Joel, you've been holding out on us. When did you get a law degree, and why did Mikie know before we did? :wink:
Hey, if I'm going to start correcting all of Mikie's errors, let's agree on a simple progression: a penny for the first, two cents for the second, 4 for the third, and so on . . .


Should net you a new gun in about 4 posts...

Scary thing is, there are a lot of Mikies out there. This particular one is just stubborn.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:32 pm 
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mrokern wrote:
Scary thing is, there are a lot of Mikies out there. This particular one is just stubborn.

-Mark
Yup. And willing to, repeatedly, make a penaz of himself in public.

And, yes, it's scary. More on that another time.

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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Funny you mention this... this is the exact feeling my wife and I had as we made that walk down into the basement. I do recall it taking an hour or so to get comfortable... then my anxiety spiked again when dinner was served. I probably wouldnt have felt this way had there been more than just the two of us in the class...

joelr wrote:
You know, I don't really think, honest, that when the poor, deluded fools walk down the rickety steps into Joe Penaz's basement, the door bangs shut behind them, they're clubbed over the head, and they wake, like a scene out of Pulp Fiction, strapped to the apparently very uncomfortable chairs with ball gags in their mouths (and God knows what the dog is doing; I only heard about the dog when Mikie mentioned it), only to be lobotomized, rather than, well, you know . . .


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:19 pm 
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Is it possible that Mikie = Ezra Buck?


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:22 pm 
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tepin wrote:
Is it possible that Mikie = Ezra Buck?
No. I know Mikie's real name, and why he prefers to keep it to himself; he's not Ezra. Nor, for that matter, is he Mango Joe.

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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:54 pm 
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[Shatner]I don't . . . understand. I read his . . . website, and he . . says . . . and he says, "<a href=http://www.concealcarry.net/schedule.htm ref="nofollow">All</a> my classes fill up!"[/Shatner]
tepin wrote:
Funny you mention this... this is the exact feeling my wife and I had as we made that walk down into the basement. I do recall it taking an hour or so to get comfortable... then my anxiety spiked again when dinner was served. I probably wouldnt have felt this way had there been more than just the two of us in the class...

joelr wrote:
You know, I don't really think, honest, that when the poor, deluded fools walk down the rickety steps into Joe Penaz's basement, the door bangs shut behind them, they're clubbed over the head, and they wake, like a scene out of Pulp Fiction, strapped to the apparently very uncomfortable chairs with ball gags in their mouths (and God knows what the dog is doing; I only heard about the dog when Mikie mentioned it), only to be lobotomized, rather than, well, you know . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:02 pm 
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joelr wrote:
[Shatner]I don't . . . understand. I read his . . . website, and he . . says . . . and he says, "<a href=http://www.concealcarry.net/schedule.htm ref="nofollow">All</a> my classes fill up!"[/Shatner]
tepin wrote:
Funny you mention this... this is the exact feeling my wife and I had as we made that walk down into the basement. I do recall it taking an hour or so to get comfortable... then my anxiety spiked again when dinner was served. I probably wouldnt have felt this way had there been more than just the two of us in the class...

joelr wrote:
You know, I don't really think, honest, that when the poor, deluded fools walk down the rickety steps into Joe Penaz's basement, the door bangs shut behind them, they're clubbed over the head, and they wake, like a scene out of Pulp Fiction, strapped to the apparently very uncomfortable chairs with ball gags in their mouths (and God knows what the dog is doing; I only heard about the dog when Mikie mentioned it), only to be lobotomized, rather than, well, you know . . .


Dammit Joel, I'm a bowling ball driller, not a carry instructor...wait...I mean, I'm a carry instructor, not a bail bondsman...hold on, I'll get it right yet...


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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:30 am 
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mrokern wrote:
Dammit Joel, I'm a bowling ball driller, not a carry instructor...wait...I mean, I'm a carry instructor, not a bail bondsman...hold on, I'll get it right yet...



Penaz wrote:
I can be there to train you for carry, teach you to shoot, and can even be there if you are arrested after a legal defensive shooting helping you find the resources you need. (I am a licensed bail bondsman) How nice to have a friendly face to help you get through a defensive shooting! No other instructor can provide all these services!"


I love it... He "Teaches" you to carry, then when you get in jail for doing what he told you to, he gets you out... maybe this not just stupidity, but a but a brilliant business plan.

"find the resources you need" does that mean give them Joel's number?

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 Post subject: Re: Magnum Mikie Makes a Penaz of Himself
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:47 am 
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Incakola wrote:
mrokern wrote:
Dammit Joel, I'm a bowling ball driller, not a carry instructor...wait...I mean, I'm a carry instructor, not a bail bondsman...hold on, I'll get it right yet...



Penaz wrote:
I can be there to train you for carry, teach you to shoot, and can even be there if you are arrested after a legal defensive shooting helping you find the resources you need. (I am a licensed bail bondsman) How nice to have a friendly face to help you get through a defensive shooting! No other instructor can provide all these services!"


I love it... He "Teaches" you to carry, then when you get in jail for doing what he told you to, he gets you out... maybe this not just stupidity, but a but a brilliant business plan.

"find the resources you need" does that mean give them Jole's number?


...and if you don't show up, he gets to hunt you down as a "bounty hunter"; it's a FULL service shop!

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