Example of how well "Smart Guns" will work.
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lance22
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Post subject: Example of how well "Smart Guns" will work. Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:44 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:02 am Posts: 817 Location: Eagan, MN
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As many of you know, the anti-gun world wants to pressure gun manufacturers (via judicial activism) into creating "smart guns", ie., firearms that will only 'activate' when held by an authorized user. Well ... I came across a story today in WCCO about "smart keys" and how well they work:
http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_106095352.html
As anyone know, the surest way to make anything unreliable is to get a computer involved ... and the more any thing relies on electronics, and less on pure mechanical motion the more it is sure to fail.
Just thought I'd pass along the link ...
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grayskys
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:54 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
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I rather like my smart key in my pickup truck, but the smart only needs to work for starting the truck not getting it.
I tend to beleive smart keys will hearld in an age of greatly reduced car thefts and probably greatly increased car jackings.
Just like all the thumb print transactions will probably encourage criminals to remove someone thumb to get access to the victums money/accounts.
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:18 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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In South Africa, some carjackers went to steal a very expensive car with the thumb print ident system. Couldn't get it started so went and cut off the owners' hand/thumb(depending on the version) to get it started.
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grayskys
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:21 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
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Not surprised..... Not Suprised at all.
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:09 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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I can't speak for other manufacturers, but with my Chrysler, I can program a blank key myself, if I have two smart keys that are already programmed.
That's not much help if you don't bother to buy a third key until after you've lost one of the two they give you when you buy the car.
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a911scanner
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:45 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:59 am Posts: 300 Location: Near Hwy 101 & Cty Rd 5
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Similar issue, though not entirely the same...
I really like my "bio-metric" gun sfe that sits next to my bed. It only opens with a fingerprint.
Takes 2 seconds to pop open after reading fingerprint, and allows up to 16 different prints to be programmed into it.
My guess is that there was much trial & error with a product like this long before it got to market.
Something similar for a weapon MAY work....
Mark
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plblark
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Post subject: I've been reading about those Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:47 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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Several people report a 50-75% failure to read rate. Thus, the thing stays locked until it gets a good read... Scary
Hell, even a 10% chance would be frightening. For serious "social" or defensive purposes, 1% could be fatal.
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grayskys
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:03 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
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Not to mention what would happen if your finger was cut and covered with blood defenting your self untill you got the safe open? Would it open then?
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fingers
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:58 am |
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Junior Member |
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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:11 am Posts: 5
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this is taken from one of my posts on another forum:
The gun control issue is a controversy. Nearly all controversies end in some sort of compromise. PIcture the controversy as a tug of war, every time you give into something the other side wants you lose a guy from your side of the rope and the knot in the middle of the rope, which represents the resolution, slides farther to the other side. Gun locks and other disabling or "smart" devices have been pushed by the Brady Bunch. By giving in to even one of their demands, however reasonable it seems, is putting us all one step closer to disarmament.
I bought a used SA 1911a1 with no ILS. I will not any gun with an ILS or other internal, built in, lock or other disabling device and any company that produces guns as such might as well be on the side of the Brady Bunch IMO.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:13 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Yup; and that's precisely the problem. There's probably close to no single demand from the antigun folks, and few combinations, that I couldn't easily live with -- as long as it's not simply the stepping stone to their next demand.
But, alas, it is.
_________________ Just a guy.
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AGoodDay
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:45 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm Posts: 666 Location: St Cloud
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grayskys wrote: Not to mention what would happen if your finger was cut and covered with blood defenting your self untill you got the safe open? Would it open then?
I had some Explorers think this was a good idea a while ago. I explained to them all of the potential things that can happen to screw it up, and their mind changed to something to the effect of "that's a really stupid idea." From their perspective, some of the potential problems:
- You're bleeding and your finger is covered in blood.
- You have other materials on your hand such as dirt from a roll in the mud, oil from a car, or any of the numerous other crap that your hand comes into contact with during the day.
- You burned your hand and your prints are not readable
- You're wearing rubber gloves because you're treating a patient, or you're dealing with a person who does not appear clean.
- You're wearing cut gloves
- You're wearing winter gloves
- One of the bad guys bullets hit your finger
- You aren't able to develop a proper firing grip on the gun while you're struggling to keep it.
- You broke your fingers during the course of the fight
- You forgot to charge your battteries
- Your gun got soaked in water and shorted out
What else can go wrong? Nope, not for me.
_________________ Try not. Do or do not, but do not try. - Yoda
Never give up. Never, never, never. - Churchill
Stand on the shoulders of your giant.
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:51 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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Remember this one?
Quote: Gun, 51, saves man, 83Long-neglected revolver kills armed intruder in retiree's HuntersPoint homeA.D. Parker didn't pay much attention to the old revolver he kept stashed under his bed. He bought the .38-caliber Smith & Wesson 51 years ago and by his own reckoning fired it only seven or eight times - and not at all for about 30 years. He rarely oiled the weapon and, for decades, just left it beneath a rug under his bed. But in the one brief moment in his life when the 83-year-old Parker really needed a gun, it worked. [...]
Would a "smart gun" still work, if the batteries hadn't been changed in 30 years?
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grayskys
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:14 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
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AGoodDay wrote: grayskys wrote: Not to mention what would happen if your finger was cut and covered with blood defenting your self untill you got the safe open? Would it open then? I had some Explorers think this was a good idea a while ago. I explained to them all of the potential things that can happen to screw it up, and their mind changed to something to the effect of "that's a really stupid idea." From their perspective, some of the potential problems: - You're bleeding and your finger is covered in blood. - You have other materials on your hand such as dirt from a roll in the mud, oil from a car, or any of the numerous other crap that your hand comes into contact with during the day. - You burned your hand and your prints are not readable - You're wearing rubber gloves because you're treating a patient, or you're dealing with a person who does not appear clean. - You're wearing cut gloves - You're wearing winter gloves - One of the bad guys bullets hit your finger - You aren't able to develop a proper firing grip on the gun while you're struggling to keep it. - You broke your fingers during the course of the fight - You forgot to charge your battteries - Your gun got soaked in water and shorted out What else can go wrong? Nope, not for me.
How about the bad guy cut off the victums hand/finger so the bad guy had access to the victums gun/car/accounts. At cub you can pay for stuff with a thumb print, I am just waiting for some one to show up with a plastic bag full of thumbs to pay for stuff.
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:36 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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grayskys wrote: How about the bad guy cut off the victums hand/finger so the bad guy had access to the victums gun/car/accounts. At cub you can pay for stuff with a thumb print, I am just waiting for some one to show up with a plastic bag full of thumbs to pay for stuff. Quote: Gummi bears defeat fingerprint sensorsSticky problem for biometrics firms By John Leyden Published Thursday 16th May 2002 12:35 GMT A Japanese cryptographer has demonstrated how fingerprint recognition devices can be fooled using a combination of low cunning, cheap kitchen supplies and a digital camera. First Tsutomu Matsumoto used gelatine (as found in Gummi Bears and other sweets) and a plastic mould to create a fake finger, which he found fooled fingerprint detectors four times out of five. Flushed with his success, he took latent fingerprints from a glass, which he enhanced with a cyanoacrylate adhesive (super-glue fumes) and photographed with a digital camera. Using PhotoShop, he improved the contrast of the image and printed the fingerprint onto a transparency sheet. Here comes the clever bit. Matsumoto took a photo-sensitive printed-circuit board (which can be found in many electronic hobby shops) and used the fingerprint transparency to etch the fingerprint into the copper. From this he made a gelatine finger using the print on the PCB, using the same process as before. Again this fooled fingerprint detectors about 80 per cent of the time. Fingerprint biometric devices, which attempt to identify people on the basis of their fingerprint, are touted as highly secure and almost impossible to fool but Matsumoto's work calls this comforting notion into question. The equipment he used is neither particularly hi-tech, nor expensive and if Matsumoto can pull off the trick what would corporate espionage boffins be capable of? Matsumoto tried these attacks against eleven commercially available fingerprint biometric systems, and was able to reliably fool all of them. Noted cryptographer Bruce Schneier, the founder and CTO of Counterpane Internet Security, described Matsumoto's work as more than impressive. "The results are enough to scrap the systems completely, and to send the various fingerprint biometric companies packing," said Schneier in yesterday's edition of his Crypto-Gram newsletter, which first publicised the issue. ®
I can't see a burglar doing this, but I can see one of the neighbor kids thinking it'd be cool thing to try.
Do you know where all of your drinking glasses are?
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grayskys
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:41 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
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LOL! I may just have to get some, you never know when you will need some one elses fingerprints!
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