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tepin
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Post subject: What Would You Do? Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:19 am |
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:00 pm Posts: 1064 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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This is a “stupid fun” post and the question was inspired by the guy in IL that got busted with the unloaded gun in the mall.
Question:
You are in a mall where carry is not banned. You are carrying concealed but slightly “printing” and you catch the eye of a watchful security guard armed with an empty holster, three pairs of Smith & Wesson handcuffs, pepper spray, Kevlar vest and possibly an IQ under 98. The guard jumps you and starts yelling “GUN! GUN! GUN!” and is attempting to disarm you.
Considerations:
1. You know the guard is not armed
2. You believe the guard is acting with good but foolish intentions
3. People are starting to gather and beginning to assist the security guard in order to detain you and take possession of your gun until the police arrive
4. You have a concern that the guard might be untrained with a firearm, another person might gain possession of your firearm or that during the struggle there could be an accidental discharge and you or some innocent person killed
What would you do?
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Pakrat
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:19 am |
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Forum Moderator/<br>AV Geek |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:56 am Posts: 2422 Location: Hopkins, MN
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I would start yelling "I have a permit". At the very least.
If it happened in Minnesota, that mall ninja would be losing his job.
Something to keep in mind: Anyone trying to take your gun, could potentially use it against you. Consider acting accordingly...
Quote: ...catch the eye of a ... security guard armed with an empty holster, three pairs of Smith & Wesson handcuffs, pepper spray, Kevlar vest and possibly an IQ under 98.
Isn't it redundant to say security guard and then tell what he's armed with? I kid, I kid...
_________________ Minnesota Permit to Carry Instructor; Utah Certified CFP Instructor
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tepin
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:31 am |
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:00 pm Posts: 1064 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Pakrat wrote: Quote: ...catch the eye of a ... security guard armed with an empty holster, three pairs of Smith & Wesson handcuffs, pepper spray, Kevlar vest and possibly an IQ under 98. Isn't it redundant to say security guard and then tell what he's armed with? I kid, I kid...
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Pat
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:56 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:18 pm Posts: 422 Location: Maple Grove
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This is a really spooky scenario. I’m not sure what I would do right when the security moron jumps me, but I am sure that I would end up owning the mall
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matt160
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:04 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:18 am Posts: 1086 Location: Anoka, MN
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Some tips:
http://www.packing.org/community/genera ... hread=5489
http://www.packing.org/community/how_to ... iew/15193/
1. Ask them if a crime has been committed, and if they are accusing you of a crime.
2. Allow them to see your receipt and look in your bags that came from the store.
3. If they want to search your person, repeat #1.
4. If they persist, pull out your cell phone (or use theirs) and say, "I'm calling the police". No ifs, ands, or buts about it - they pressed the issue, so now they suffer the consequences. Also, call your lawyer if you have one on retainer.
5. Wait until the cops arrive and let management experience egg on their face.
_________________ "Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding."
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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ttousi
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:05 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am Posts: 3311 Location: St. Paul, MN.
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Pat wrote: This is a really spooky scenario. I’m not sure what I would do right when the security moron jumps me, but I am sure that I would end up owning the mall
Always wanted to own a mall Very spooky indeed. Letting someone like him take control of your firearm could be a disaster. I certainly wouldn't relinquish without a fight.
And yes yelling "permit holder" or something similar between the profanity might help.
_________________ http://is.gd/37LKr
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chunkstyle
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:47 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:28 pm Posts: 2362 Location: Uptown Minneapolis
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If they touch you, use your pepper spray, while saying "don't touch me". If they tell you you can't leave, stay exactly where you are, or move to a nearby, very public area. Never let yourself be "backroomed". Then call 911, and possibly your lawyer. Matt otherwise has it right.
As for the cops, remember the 3 things to say.
1) I want to speak to a lawyer, before any questioning.
2) I do not consent to any search.
3) Am I free to go?
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grayskys
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:00 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
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I might start yelling "Oh my neck!!!", "Oh my Back!!!", "I can't feel my feet!!!", "Someone call me an ambulance and a lawyer!!!" [The emoticon of indicision about which emoticon to use emoticon]
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Srigs
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:03 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:40 am Posts: 3752 Location: East Suburbs
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I would not let the guy get my gun period...
I would break free and run while calling 911. I would file police charges against the guy and call my lawyer.
I to want to own the mall and security company!
_________________ Srigs
Side Guard Holsters
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton
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JDR
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:21 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:37 am Posts: 935 Location: Victoria
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matt160 wrote: Some tips: http://www.packing.org/community/genera ... hread=5489http://www.packing.org/community/how_to ... iew/15193/1. Ask them if a crime has been committed, and if they are accusing you of a crime. 2. Allow them to see your receipt and look in your bags that came from the store. 3. If they want to search your person, repeat #1. 4. If they persist, pull out your cell phone (or use theirs) and say, "I'm calling the police". No ifs, ands, or buts about it - they pressed the issue, so now they suffer the consequences. Also, call your lawyer if you have one on retainer. 5. Wait until the cops arrive and let management experience egg on their face.
matt160,
I think you missed the part of the scenario of "The guard jumps you and starts yelling “GUN! GUN! GUN!” and is attempting to disarm you"
Your #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5, might be a bit difficult as you are wrestling with this idiot who is attempting to disarm you, along with a few bystanders who are helping him.
_________________ "To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason
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cobb
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Post subject: Re: What Would You Do? Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:16 pm |
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1911 tainted |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
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tepin wrote: The guard jumps you and starts yelling “GUN! GUN! GUN!” and is attempting to disarm you.
He is in physical contact with me? That's too bad, because he is going to get hurt and it would not be from the gun that he was trying to take away.
How can I say this?
Because something similar happened to me many, many years ago, except that person was trying to take a loaded m16 away from me.
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grayskys
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:24 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
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Seriously;
I only let LEOs take my firearm (period)! What ever it takes.
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eLRoy
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:36 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:31 pm Posts: 243 Location: Eden Prairie
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It's always important to be VERY aware of your surroundings, especially when armed. NO one, not even a security guard should be able to get close to you without you being at Condition Red and prepared to "engage".
Lots of good suggestions here, especially about shouting "I have a permit!".
Also, when you are armed you should always try to keep your body between your gun and anyone close (say, withing grabbing distance) to you. It's a subtle thing, but will make it nearly impossible for someone to grab your gun out of it's holster without first incapacitizing you.
Having said all this, I expect it is VERY unlikely that this scenario would ever play out, but it's a good exercise nevertheless as it makes us all think.
Be safe.
Elroy
_________________ "A free people ought to be armed" - George Washington
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cobb
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:42 pm |
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1911 tainted |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
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eLRoy wrote: but it's a good exercise nevertheless as it makes us all think. Elroy
That is the best part of it, making you think. So if something remotely like this happens, you can hopefully react faster because you have played the "what if" through in your mind.
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JDR
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Post subject: Re: What Would You Do? Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:16 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:37 am Posts: 935 Location: Victoria
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tepin wrote: ........3. People are starting to gather and beginning to assist the security guard in order to detain you and take possession of your gun until the police arrive.....
This is probably never going to happen. but it does start you thinking about this and other situation and how would handle them.
_________________ "To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason
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