Va. Lawmaker's Gun Discharges in Office
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matt160
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Post subject: Va. Lawmaker's Gun Discharges in Office  Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:48 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:18 am
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Location: Anoka, MN
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Thanks a lot bud, luckily no one was hurt.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/26/D8FCPUO8F.html
Quote: By BOB LEWIS
Associated Press Writer
RICHMOND, Va.
A state lawmaker's handgun accidentally discharged in his office Thursday as he tried to unload it, sending a bullet zinging across the room.
It was stopped by a bulletproof vest hanging on the door.
"That absorbed the entire thing," said Del. John S. "Jack" Reid, a 63- year-old Republican who was both shaken and embarrassed by the incident.
He later took the rare step of apologizing to both the Democratic and Republican caucuses before Thursday's floor session, and then made another apology on the House floor.
Reid said he had taken the tiny automatic handgun out of the breast pocket of his jacket and was ejecting the ammunition clip when it discharged.
He said it was fortunate that the vest was hanging where it was because the .380-caliber bullet could have passed through the door and possibly hit someone. Reid received the vest last year as a gag gift from the sheriff of Henrico County, the Richmond suburb where he lives.
The lawmaker said he obtained a permit to carry a concealed weapon two years ago after becoming concerned about his security. He declined to elaborate on the threat.
"I think all of us occasionally get some phone calls that concern us, so during the session I've been carrying it," he said.
Virginia's gun laws are among the nation's least restrictive. So revered are gun rights that the General Assembly allows permit holders to bring firearms into buildings on Capitol Square, including the Capitol itself. Several legislators carry firearms.
Thursday's incident reprised the debate over allowing firearms inside the buildings at the seat of state government.
"It does raise a safety question," Gov. Timothy M. Kaine said. "You've got Boy Scout groups and pages and all kinds of folks walking around in the halls, so I think it's something the Legislature needs to look at."
House Majority Leader H. Morgan Griffith, a Republican and key gun- rights supporter, said the accidental discharge of Reid's gun is no reason to consider tightening rules.
"The truth is you're more likely to get hurt in a car accident than by a gun," he said. "So why restrict people's freedoms?"
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"Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding."
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:56 am |
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Location: Twin Cities
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BigRobT
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:23 pm |
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Location: North Central Texas (now)
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Didn't Jesse battle out the carrying aspect while HE was governor??
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Pakrat
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:28 pm |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:56 am
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Location: Hopkins, MN
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Quote: Virginia's gun laws are among the nation's least restrictive. So revered are gun rights that the General Assembly allows permit holders to bring firearms into buildings on Capitol Square, including the Capitol itself. Several legislators carry firearms. This gets my approval. Quote: Thursday's incident reprised the debate over allowing firearms inside the buildings at the seat of state government. Why would they be special? Quote: "It does raise a safety question," Gov. Timothy M. Kaine said. "You've got Boy Scout groups and pages and all kinds of folks walking around in the halls, so I think it's something the Legislature needs to look at." This is not a legislative issue, it's a safety issue. People should not be be unloading their weapons. It would also be a great test of the boy scout's first aid merit badge if something did happen. BigRobT wrote: Didn't Jesse battle out the carrying aspect while HE was governor?? He pushed for shall issue. IIRC, he wasn't able to get a carry permit from his own city while he was governer. At least until he made a stink about it.
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Minnesota Permit to Carry Instructor; Utah Certified CFP Instructor
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dcwn.45
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:56 pm |
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Location: Waconia,Mn.
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This is why I reccomend and teach....avoid unloading,remove holster with gun inside,and store safely in locked car,trunk,desk drawer,or bestof all lockbox.This obviously for going into prohibited places,not long term storage,just when you have to disarm temporarily.
Don't be this guy who they name the bill after when they try to repeal the law!
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David ,Molon Labe!
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." --Col. Jeff Cooper
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AGoodDay
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:23 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 666
Location: St Cloud
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Better idea IMO. Don't pull the trigger. The gun won't go bang if the trigger doesn't go back. This isn't an issue of the trigger being exposed, it's an issue of improper training and unsafe gun handling practices IMHO.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:11 pm |
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AGoodDay wrote: Better idea IMO. Don't pull the trigger. The gun won't go bang if the trigger doesn't go back. This isn't an issue of the trigger being exposed, it's an issue of improper training and unsafe gun handling practices IMHO. That's a good start, but it's not enough. There's a reason why we teach -- and, I presume, practice -- pointing the gun in a safe direction when unloading. As a practical matter, otherwise safe gun handling (e.g. "Keep your damn finger outside of the trigger guard") will prevent an unwanted discharge almost all of the time, but there are theoretical possibilities of mechanical malfunctions where letting a slide go forward will light one off even without that.
Most of the time, of course, it's bad gun handling -- precisely the same reason that, in both myth and much reality, police locker rooms have drop ceilings.
Pointing in a safe direction -- toward, say, a bullet resistant vest in a corner doesn't get a lot better than than -- protects against injuries from both kinds of malfunctions.
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Just a guy.
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cobb
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:05 pm |
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Quote: The gun won't go bang if the trigger doesn't go back. You have been very fortunate. Quote: but there are theoretical possibilities of mechanical malfunctions where letting a slide go forward will light one off. It isn't a theoretical possibility, it is a fact that a mechanical malfunction can cause a round to be fired.
I have had this happed to me twice, once with a Remington 760 in 30-06. Just the sun warming it up on a very cold day caused it to fire the first time. You could also hit the side of the receive with the safety on and it would fire, and we did get it to slam fire once. It also happened with a .45 acp Springfield Trophy Match during a match. It was pretty standard, I was told to face down range, load and make ready. Well when I dropped the slide, I had a slam fire which got everybody’s attention and made a nice divot in the dirt down range about 20 feet or so. That Springfield had thousands of rounds through it and it just plain broke, but all safety rules where followed and nobody was harmed except for maybe their under shorts. 
Yes, always keep the finger off the trigger and the muzzle pointed in a safe direction for safety. In my class I advise that when loading or unloading their carry weapon at home, that they point it at a safe backstop. This can be about 16" or so of magazines stacked tightly inside a box, or what I use is a 6 gallon pail that has single sheets of newspaper cut in a circle the same diameter of the pail and it is filled to the top making a dense bullet stop. Is this perfect, no, but it is something to point your weapon at when you have to load and unload at home, and hopefully it will stop, or greatly slow down a bullet if you have a mechanical failure that causes the weapon to discharge.
Last edited by cobb on Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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e5usmc
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:12 pm |
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Location: Eden Prairie
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cobb wrote: Quote: a 6 gallon pail that has single sheets of newspaper cut in a circle the same diameter of the pail and it is filled to the top making a dense bullet stop.  how long does it take to cut enough newsprint to fill a 6 gallon pail?
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cobb
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:13 pm |
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cobb wrote: Quote: a 6 gallon pail that has single sheets of newspaper cut in a circle the same diameter of the pail and it is filled to the top making a dense bullet stop. how long does it take to cut enough newsprint to fill a 6 gallon pail? Now you sound like my wife. 
I don't remember how many episodes of 24 it was?
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AGoodDay
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:49 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 666
Location: St Cloud
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Yes, I agree with both Joel and Cobb here. I was trying to specifically speak to the discharge itself, not where the bullet went. I have had guns go off on me when I didn't pull the trigger 2 times in total. It was a poor quality .22 rifle that didn't belong to me, I was 12, and it was pointed in a safe direction. Other than that, yes they can happen. Normally on rifles or when things break on pistols. Yes, pointing it in a safe direction is equally as important as keeping your finger off of the trigger. ND's normally happen when people put their finger where it doesn't belong, however, and I do believe that that is what happened in this case as well.
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hammAR
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:04 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: N 44°56.621` W 093°11.256 (St Paul)
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ND -
So, why was he "playing" with it at work?
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Zerwas
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:29 pm |
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Quote: Better idea IMO. Don't pull the trigger. The gun won't go bang if the trigger doesn't go back. This isn't an issue of the trigger being exposed, it's an issue of improper training and unsafe gun handling practices IMHO. I agree with the first part of your post, but not the second.
As an instructor, all you can do is make sure the student understands how to safely handle a firearm during your class time and while qualifying at the range.
At some point in time, it becomes the RESPONSIBILITY of the individual to make sure he practices what you have taught them.
In my class I harp on proper loading/unloading methods. I make sure I repeat myself to the point where I am sick of hearing myself.
I know at the end of the day, I taught the students well.
I tell my students they MUST go out and PRACTICE what I have shown them to make the methods become second nature.
I have no recourse if they choose not to practice as I have instructed them to do. It's really the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it".
I'd be willing to bet this legislator was shown the proper way to unload a pistol, but just never practiced enough with it after the class to safely do it. Which is really sad.
_________________
Steven Zerwas
Personal Protection Inc.
USPSA member L2504
IDPA member A08208
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AGoodDay
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:32 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm
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Location: St Cloud
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Zerwas, I do agree with you, but disagree that the last part of that quote was incorrect. I will clarify that statement. I do not in any way blame the person who teaches these people if they do teach them proper gun handling. Training doesn't end with a good qualified instructor, though. I go out and train on a regular basis with my guns, without the supervision of and instructor.
What I mean in that statement is that his training of himself to do the same thing properly every time was improper. It's not the fault of his former instructors. His training of himself was inadequate. It is the students responsibility to train regularly, properly and safely.
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