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 An Interesting Afternoon At The Range... 
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 Post subject: An Interesting Afternoon At The Range...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:04 pm 
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While I was helping Roger out at BPR today, a guy came in wearing a Glock in a OWB holster, and his 12 year old has a Ruger .22 in a OWB as well! We couldn't believe it! About the kid carrying, the dad said that "It's legal as long as it's exposed". When we all vigorusly shook our heads, he asked if we wanted the kid to take the holster off. Of course we did. Then, after he paid and went into the bay, he had the kid put it back on again! I ran in and asked "What are you doing?" He answered, "It's Ok as long as he's in here". Well, that changed in a big hurry! With that, and the "little chat" we had about target placement, he wasn't too happy with how his trip to the range was going. Hopefully, he won't be back soon.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:23 pm 
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IIRC it is legal for a minor to possess a firearm if they are with a parent.

I think what you described might actually be legal, as long a the minor is in the presence of a parent. Of course legal does not always equal sensible. I certainly don't advocate minors carrying in public, even with parents present.

I'd have to look up the statute on this one.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Erik_Pakieser wrote:
IIRC it is legal for a minor to possess a firearm if they are with a parent.

I think what you described might actually be legal, as long a the minor is in the presence of a parent. Of course legal does not always equal sensible. I certainly don't advocate minors carrying in public, even with parents present.

I'd have to look up the statute on this one.


Boy......I'd like to see that statute.

Was the firearm loaded? Did the kid have it on while in a motor vehicle?
My guess is that, if it is addressed, it might be legal while afield or actually at the range. I suspect the kid wore it from home.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:30 pm 
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Not a very bright father :roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:33 am 
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Here's what I found after 30 seconds of digging.
(Bold added)

Quote:
97B.021 POSSESSION OF FIREARMS BY PERSONS UNDER AGE 16.
Subdivision 1. Restrictions. (a) Except as provided in this subdivision, a person under the
age of 16 may not possess a firearm, unless accompanied by a parent or guardian.

(b) A person under age 16 may possess a firearm without being accompanied by a parent or
guardian:
(1) on land owned by, or occupied as the principal residence of, the person or the person's
parent or guardian;
(2) while participating in an organized target shooting program with adult supervision;
(3) while the person is participating in a firearms safety program or traveling to and from
class; or
(4) if the person is age 14 or 15 and has a firearms safety certificate.
Subd. 1a. Parent or guardian duties. A parent or guardian may not knowingly direct, allow,
or permit a person under the age of 16 to possess a firearm in violation of this section.
Subd. 2. Seizure of unlawfully possessed firearms. A law enforcement officer shall seize a
firearm used in violation of this section. The officer must tag the seized firearm with the name and
address of the person from whom it was taken and give the person a receipt. The firearm shall be
placed in the custody of the conservation officer in charge of the area where the seizure was made.
Subd. 3. Return or forfeiture of seized firearms. A firearm seized under this section must
be returned to the person from whom it was seized when the person presents a firearms safety
certificate to the conservation officer. The person must present the certificate within 90 days after
the beginning of the first firearms training course in the county after the firearm was seized. If the
person does not present a certificate, the firearm is contraband and forfeited to the state, and shall
be disposed of as prescribed by the commissioner.
History: 1986 c 386 art 2 s 5; 1996 c 410 s 38; 2006 c 281 art 2 s 35


https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... id=97B.021

and,...
Quote:
624.713 CERTAIN PERSONS NOT TO POSSESS FIREARMS.
Subdivision 1. Ineligible persons. The following persons shall not be entitled to possess a
pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon or, except for clause (a), any other firearm:
(a) a person under the age of 18 years except that a person under 18 may carry or possess
a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon (i) in the actual presence or under the
direct supervision of the person's parent or guardian,
(ii) for the purpose of military drill under
the auspices of a legally recognized military organization and under competent supervision,
(iii) for the purpose of instruction, competition, or target practice on a firing range approved
by the chief of police or county sheriff in whose jurisdiction the range is located and under
direct supervision; or (iv) if the person has successfully completed a course designed to teach
marksmanship and safety with a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon and
approved by the commissioner of natural resources;


https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... id=624.713

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:59 am 
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Whether it is legal or not isn't really my concern. If its legal, great. But why does common sense not enter a concerned father's mind? I can dream up quite a few situations where I would not want my son to be carrying at age 21, let alone age 12. I don't think much further explanation is needed. We aren't hermits in Idaho, 12 year olds aren't out in the woods keeping their eyes peeled for critters for supper.

Sad a parent thinks its ok to let a 12 year old do this, legal or not. Not to be rude but get this guy out of my gene pool.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:35 am 
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It looks like it was legal...but I'm with everyone else, it certainly isn't smart.

If it's legal, I think Roger could cover any future instances of this with a quick policy note.

Here's the next question: why in the world would he have the kid put the holster back on IN the bay? Last I checked, only LEOs can draw and fire from the holster at BPR (although if they ever start allowing folks who have holster training to do so, I'll be the first one in the bay!).

-Mark


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:37 am 
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Outside the actual firing range..........ie in transit, the parking lot etc

624 714 says:

Quote:
Subd. 1a. Permit required; penalty. A person, other than a peace officer, as defined in section 626.84, subdivision 1, who carries, holds, or possesses a pistol in a motor vehicle, snowmobile, or boat, or on or about the person's clothes or the person, or otherwise in possession or control in a public place, as defined in section 624.7181, subdivision 1, paragraph (c), without first having obtained a permit to carry the pistol is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. A person who is convicted a second or subsequent time is guilty of a felony.

furthermore.........

Quote:
Subd. 2. Where application made; authority to issue permit; criteria; scope.
(a) Applications by Minnesota residents for permits to carry shall be made to the county sheriff where the applicant resides. Nonresidents, as defined in section 171.01, subdivision 42, may apply to any sheriff.
(b) Unless a sheriff denies a permit under the exception set forth in subdivision 6, paragraph (a), clause (3), a sheriff must issue a permit to an applicant if the person:
(1) has training in the safe use of a pistol;
(2) is at least 21 years old and a citizen or a permanent resident of the United States;
(3) completes an application for a permit;
(4) is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under the following sections


Dad is an idiot to let the kid open carry...............not only does it not meet any portions of the statutes but defies common sense. This is the type of stupidity that affects all of us and the carry law.

Sorry for the rant........... :x

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:39 am 
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Thanks for the clarification. I thought the law for minors was a bit permissive.

-Mark


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:47 am 
Delicate Flower

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mrokern wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. I thought the law for minors was a bit permissive.

-Mark


The first statutes listed were from DNR related statutes designed to spell out hunting /target shooting criteria. Applying them to this situation IMHO would be quite a stretch. While they would apply to the actual firing line anything beyond is ...........well..........a stretch.

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 Post subject: Holster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:16 am 
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The guy clearly wanted to do things his way. The kid wasn't attempting to do any holster work. Dad just told him to put the belt & holster back on after they got in the bay. When they were leaving, I pointed out a couple of the safety rule postings, "Just for his information". With the look I got, I doubt that he'll be back any time soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:52 pm 
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This guy is a danger to the public, and as a result so is his son. Sure a kid can carry a gun when the parent is around, if you are hunting and have passed your hunter's safety course, but inside city limits at a public place is ridiculous.

I hit BPR myself on occasion and if I was next to this guy on the lanes I'd either move to the other room or wait until they got done. If it went beyond dirty looks would this not be something to report to the Police?

This guy needs to be set straight it sounds like. I hope other ranges don't put up with that stuff. I suppose when he and his son are both open carrying at the local Dairy Queen it will get resolved.

I'm glad to hear you guys at BPR didn't stand for it, I've always been happy with your views on safety down there.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:33 pm 
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My guess is he confused the provisions in statutes 97B.021 and 624.713(a) with the title of the section: 624.714 Subd. 9. "Carrying pistols about one's premises or for purposes of repair, target practice."

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 Post subject: holsters
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:23 pm 
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If he would have put up any kind of protest, he would have been "asked to leave". No question about it. I don't know if they "strapped 'em on" out in the parking lot, or at home. Imagine if they stopped somewhere on the way to the range?

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 Post subject: Re: holsters
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:31 pm 
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DonL wrote:
Imagine if they stopped somewhere on the way to the range?


That's exactly what Roger said when I talked to him tonight after my colleague and I finished shooting (and discovering that my colleague's AR-15 does NOT like certain types of ammo, but that's another story).

Daddy could have had a much more direct discussion with the boys in blue.

-Mark


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