Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive :: View topic - Champps

Quote:

It's better to have a gun and not need it, than ...
You should read the account of the Luby's massacre that Dr. Susan Gratia has given. She was there. Her parents died. Her legally owned handgun was in her vehicle because it was against the law for her to carry it into the restaurant.

The following is transcribed from oral testimony before the Missouri legislature:

"Somewhere along the line I made one of my stupidest decisions... I was afraid that ...if ...somebody caught me with the gun in my purse, I could lose my license to practice, lose my ability to make a living. So I took the gun out of my purse and I left it in my car ...which the laws in my state are kinda wishy- washy on ...and I thought, 'Heck, if I needed it, it's probably going to be when I'm out on the road ...in the middle of nowhere and, you know, my car's broke down or something ..."

"Everybody in here knows, I think, what happened in Luby's .. but, in a nutshell ...uh ...ya know, we all think ...and I know you do ...(indicating a committee member), we all think that crime happens when you're walking down a dark alley... I've never been involved in any crimes ...that's never happened in my life ... I was with my parents...AT NOON, on a bright sunny day, in Luby's, with a hundred and forty other people, OK. In a town that's not a high crime town."

"This guy .... drives through the window .... and starts shooting ...This guy has got no history ...nothing." "Well, my father and I immediately put the table up in front of us and we all got down behind it, and I ...ya know your first opinion is ...is this guy robbing this place ...what's the deal ...what's ...what's going on, and then you're realizing that all he's doing is simply shooting people."

"As he was working his way toward us, I reached for my purse, thinking ...Hah! ...I've got this son of a gun ...OK? Now, understand, I know what a lot of people think, ...they think, ... 'Oh, my God, then you would have had a gunfight and then more people would have been killed.' Unhunh, no, ...I was down on the floor ...this guy is standing up ...everybody else is down on the floor ...I had a perfect shot at him ...it would have been clear, I had a place to prop my hand ...the guy was not even aware of what we were doing ...I'm not saying that I could have saved anybody in there, but I would have had a chance ...that's all I'm saying is that I would have had a chance ..." "My gun wasn't even in my purse ...it was a hundred feet away in my car!"

"My father was saying, 'I gotta do something!, I gotta do something! This guy's going to kill everyone in here!' So I wasn't able to hold him down and when my father thought he had a chance ...he went at the guy! The guy turned, shot him in the chest and my dad went down."

"Shortly ...it made the guy change directions and he went off to my left. Shortly after that somebody broke out a window in back and I saw a chance to get out ...I grabbed my mother and tried to get her up ...hoped she was following me ...and I grew wings on my feet. As it turned out, my mother crawled over to my father and stayed with him ...and this ...I'm trying to think of a civil word to use ...this person ...uh ...eventually came around and shot her also ...OK"

"Let me make a point here, in case this isn't becoming extremely clear. My state has gun control laws. It did not keep Hennard from coming in and killing everybody! What it did do, was keep me from protecting my family! That's the only thing that cotton pickin' law did! OK! Understand that! That's ...that's so important!"

Author:	e5usmc [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:58 am ]
Post subject:	Champps - Eden Prairie
Champps near the intersection of 494 and 212 in Eden Prairie is posted... Although the posted sign is only visible once you get past the vestibule, and into the dining area - Improper post? Although while I was there this last Saturday evening with my wife, there was a security guard (unarmed as far as I could tell) parked on the sidewalk of the nearby pet supply store ripping down heaters... I assume for my protection... 8010 Glen Lane Eden Prairie, MN 55344 952-942-3331

Author:	chinakay [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Sign's been there from Day One. Improper, yes... it's way more than four feet from the door. The Champps at Ridgedale is not posted.

Author:	chuckw [ Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Champs at Ridgedale
The Champs at Ridgedale was posted the last time I looked, which was a month or so ago. But as I recall it was a brass plate...

Author:	hammAR [ Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:
I was just there today (Ridgedale one) and I didn't see a sign....of course I don't look for them either.........may be there or may be not, you know how reliable witnesses memories are.........

Author:	Moby Clarke [ Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:
I took the family to the Champps just off Silver Lake Rd and 694. They are posted, though when you approach the door from the parking lot you can not see the sign. I caught it coming out. While there, I was open carrying as I did not have a covering T-Shirt. No one said anything. On a unrelated topic, there was a guy sitting kind of kitty corner to us who stared at me for a good 2 or 3 minutes. Not sure what his deal was, but he never said anything. Too wierd.

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Author:	Brewman [ Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:49 am ]
Post subject:
Moby Clarke wrote: On a unrelated topic, there was a guy sitting kind of kitty corner to us who stared at me for a good 2 or 3 minutes. Not sure what his deal was, but he never said anything. Too wierd. My guess is pistol envy. As in "Golly, I sure wish my wife would let me do that!" What else could it be?

Author:	Moby Clarke [ Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Brewman wrote: Moby Clarke wrote: On a unrelated topic, there was a guy sitting kind of kitty corner to us who stared at me for a good 2 or 3 minutes. Not sure what his deal was, but he never said anything. Too wierd. My guess is pistol envy. As in "Golly, I sure wish my wife would let me do that!" What else could it be? Well, not to brag, but I do have a big, uh, I mean, carry a big pistol. It's a Glock 19.

Author:	tepin [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:
chinakay wrote: Sign's been there from Day One. Improper, yes... it's way more than four feet from the door. The Champps at Ridgedale is not posted. I have been there many times and have never seen a sign.

Author:	tepin [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:
Moby Clarke wrote: I took the family to the Champps just off Silver Lake Rd and 694. They are posted, though when you approach the door from the parking lot you can not see the sign. I caught it coming out. While there, I was open carrying as I did not have a covering T-Shirt. No one said anything. Most people probably assume "cop" if they see someone with a gun (depending on context of course). I wouldn’t have the gall to ask someone for their I.D. – If Chanpps had asked you to leave, do you still pay the tab for an unfinished meal?

Author:	eLRoy [ Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Champps - Eden Prairie
e5usmc wrote: Champps near the intersection of 494 and 212 in Eden Prairie is posted... Although the posted sign is only visible once you get past the vestibule, and into the dining area - Improper post? Although while I was there this last Saturday evening with my wife, there was a security guard (unarmed as far as I could tell) parked on the sidewalk of the nearby pet supply store ripping down heaters... I assume for my protection... 8010 Glen Lane Eden Prairie, MN 55344 952-942-3331 The security guard ripping down heaters is indeed armed and he works for the pet store making sure that no one parks in one of the pet store's designated parking spots and then walks into Champps. Honest! I don't know if he confronts the parking lot violators or just has them towed, but that's all he's there for. I asked him.

Author:	someone1980 [ Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:01 am ]
Post subject:
tepin wrote: If Chanpps had asked you to leave, do you still pay the tab for an unfinished meal? Could they charge you with a dine and dash if your food was on the table? And do you tip the waitress if it is not her fault for you being asked to leave?

Author:	joelr [ Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:11 am ]
Post subject:
someone1980 wrote: tepin wrote: If Chanpps had asked you to leave, do you still pay the tab for an unfinished meal? Could they charge you with a dine and dash if your food was on the table? And do you tip the waitress if it is not her fault for you being asked to leave? 1. While IANAL, I doubt it. If they do, pay under protest, and have fun in Small Claims Court. 2. It's one of the rare situations where I wouldn't. That would complicate the issue, above, I think. In some ways, I'm tempted to eat at a posted restaurant, then remove my covering garment around dessert time, and see what happens. But probably not, all in all. I really do want to honor the restaurant's request that I dine somewhere safer, where the guests have not been disarmed for the muggers' convenience. Their restaurant; their rules. On the other hand, I can recall a time or two that there's been some attempted emotional blackmail used about vaguely related things, and it might be an interesting way to respond to it.

Author:	Selurcspi [ Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:59 am ]
Post subject:
I toying with an idea about raising the awareness of managers of posted premises I like to visit. If you like, let’s say, eating in a particular “posted” restaurant, take a copy of the account of Dr. Susan Gratia in your back pocket (posted below). Carry if you wish, it depends on how you feel about insisting on an answer to some questions you might want to pose. Enjoy your meal, pay and tip the waitress and then ask to speak to the manager, I would suggest privately so as not to cause embarrassment. Give him/her a copy of the account and ask him to read it. Once he is done, ask him what precautions his restaurant has taken to prevent a similar incident. You might also ask how much insurance the restaurant has in case something like this happens, while pointing out that because they have posted they may well be liable for any injury. I think I will forgo carrying when I try this, at least at first time or two, until I am sure how the scenario should play out. I don’t want to …….ehem …… shoot myself in the foot. Thoughts anyone? Quote: It's better to have a gun and not need it, than ... You should read the account of the Luby's massacre that Dr. Susan Gratia has given. She was there. Her parents died. Her legally owned handgun was in her vehicle because it was against the law for her to carry it into the restaurant. The following is transcribed from oral testimony before the Missouri legislature: "Somewhere along the line I made one of my stupidest decisions... I was afraid that ...if ...somebody caught me with the gun in my purse, I could lose my license to practice, lose my ability to make a living. So I took the gun out of my purse and I left it in my car ...which the laws in my state are kinda wishy- washy on ...and I thought, 'Heck, if I needed it, it's probably going to be when I'm out on the road ...in the middle of nowhere and, you know, my car's broke down or something ..." "Everybody in here knows, I think, what happened in Luby's .. but, in a nutshell ...uh ...ya know, we all think ...and I know you do ...(indicating a committee member), we all think that crime happens when you're walking down a dark alley... I've never been involved in any crimes ...that's never happened in my life ... I was with my parents...AT NOON, on a bright sunny day, in Luby's, with a hundred and forty other people, OK. In a town that's not a high crime town." "This guy .... drives through the window .... and starts shooting ...This guy has got no history ...nothing." "Well, my father and I immediately put the table up in front of us and we all got down behind it, and I ...ya know your first opinion is ...is this guy robbing this place ...what's the deal ...what's ...what's going on, and then you're realizing that all he's doing is simply shooting people." "As he was working his way toward us, I reached for my purse, thinking ...Hah! ...I've got this son of a gun ...OK? Now, understand, I know what a lot of people think, ...they think, ... 'Oh, my God, then you would have had a gunfight and then more people would have been killed.' Unhunh, no, ...I was down on the floor ...this guy is standing up ...everybody else is down on the floor ...I had a perfect shot at him ...it would have been clear, I had a place to prop my hand ...the guy was not even aware of what we were doing ...I'm not saying that I could have saved anybody in there, but I would have had a chance ...that's all I'm saying is that I would have had a chance ..." "My gun wasn't even in my purse ...it was a hundred feet away in my car!" "My father was saying, 'I gotta do something!, I gotta do something! This guy's going to kill everyone in here!' So I wasn't able to hold him down and when my father thought he had a chance ...he went at the guy! The guy turned, shot him in the chest and my dad went down." "Shortly ...it made the guy change directions and he went off to my left. Shortly after that somebody broke out a window in back and I saw a chance to get out ...I grabbed my mother and tried to get her up ...hoped she was following me ...and I grew wings on my feet. As it turned out, my mother crawled over to my father and stayed with him ...and this ...I'm trying to think of a civil word to use ...this person ...uh ...eventually came around and shot her also ...OK" "Let me make a point here, in case this isn't becoming extremely clear. My state has gun control laws. It did not keep Hennard from coming in and killing everybody! What it did do, was keep me from protecting my family! That's the only thing that cotton pickin' law did! OK! Understand that! That's ...that's so important!"

Author:	someone1980 [ Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:31 am ]
Post subject:
joelr wrote: In some ways, I'm tempted to eat at a posted restaurant, then remove my covering garment around dessert time, and see what happens. I really do want to honor the restaurant's request that I dine somewhere safer, where the guests have not been disarmed for the muggers' convenience. Their restaurant; their rules. On the other hand, I can recall a time or two that there's been some attempted emotional blackmail used about vaguely related things, and it might be an interesting way to respond to it. More questions "Their restaurant; their rules" is interesting. Any known places that welcome people who carry (other then the one mentioned recently)? I don't know how many of these places there are (or how many would be willing to go public about it), but it might be a useful to have an index of these places. Something like the posted database. At least it would be useful for me when I want to get out of the house and don't really know where to go.

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Author:	joelr [ Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:59 am ]
Post subject:
I know of a couple of restaurants that have been very happy to have permit holder business, but I'm not sure that the proprietors would like me posting their names publicly. By and large, store owners -- including restaurant owners -- want to keep their own politics out of their business and not get involved in other folks' political controversies... Hence, for example, the paucity of restaurants with those silly NO GUNS signs. Not none, but very few restaurants have them, and none of the best in the city do.