I have been following this site for a while now and I'm impressed by how polite you all generally are. I suppose you'd offer to take pictures for him too!

I did quite a bit of research on USC 930 and Postal code... Unfortunately it seems having a permit would not be acceptable for any "other lawful purposes".

I wish I could find the bookmark to the explanation but I appear to have lost it.

Here is a scary bit of case law on 930 though:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=1st&navby=case&no=011065

We affirm a district court's denial of a motion for acquittal unless the evidence, when "'viewed in the light most favorable to the government, could not have persuaded any trier of fact of the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.'"

e5usmc,

This thread appears to have expired in Sept. regarding the VA's interpretation of this discussion. I've known Rick (current VA Police Chief) for over 20-years and can certainly get his spin on this issue if anyone is still interested.

Me thinks you are the same name on BurgmanUSA forum. Am I right?

I don't think I'm speaking for just myself here, but I'm always interested in hearing from local LEOs concerning carry issues.

-Mark

(Message withdrawn)

mrokern,

...and I'll see if I can track down the VA Police Chief this week. I guess my interest would be on behalf of the vets that legally carry and come from outstate areas and then find they are possibly subject to penalties; even if storing their firearms in their vehicles during appointments and such. At first blush I'm guessing it's a "don't ask/don't tell" policy. Hennepin has concurrent jurisdiction on VA property, however I'm confident they are not interested in getting involved in a federal matter, since it smacks in the face of state law. I know the boys in blue at the VA have a full docket with the normal flow of patients, staff and visitors down there and are not predisposed to do vehicle checks.

Not sure what the current policy is, but LEO's used to have to vault their guns in the PD office when entering the building - even on official business and in uniform. That may have changed now that the VA police carry, too. (And THAT was overdue!)

As I was attempting to fix my beret in propper posistion while leaving the Whipple Federal building I read (reversed since I was inside) the sign posted on the doors about carrying firearms into the building. the bottom of the notice stated something to the effect of

"A legal state permit is not an exception to this federal policy"

I'll see if I can't get a full blown picture next week.

Caught up with the (Mpls) VA Police Chief earlier today and discussed the dialogue on here. He was perfectly willing to acknowledge the dilemma of permit holders on federal property and was comfortable citing that he had bigger fish to fry than monitoring the contents of parked and locked cars. We did no wrangling about the exact language in 18 USC 930 (although admittedly the continual reference to "federal facility" is defined in the same citation as "(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties." And while there is a very specific reference to the "grounds," it only and very definitively speaks of U.S. Courts, "(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.").

He assured me of their prompt and immediate attention to those who challenge the weapons restrictions in the building, but they will likely need a complaint and reasonable suspicion to go into a vehicle over this issue. Frankly, they don't want the headache of prosecuting a non-event in the parking lot.

DISCRETION! (My advice; not his. His mandate is to enforce federal law and protect the citizenry within his purview.)

And for what it's worth, LEO's still need to check their firearms "at the door" before going further into the building.

That's all I've got, folks. Don't ask/don't tell and definitely don't go inside.

Sounds eminently sensible to me. FWIW.

Probably looks like this one.

So then,

The Post Office.

Is this still federal property and would the same rules apply?

Yep, that'd be it!

Couldn't think of where to put this, so I thought I'd post it under the VA dialogue.

DON'T try to be a test case at the Mpls VA or airport today since the Secretary of Veterans Affairs (cabinet member), and undoubtedly an untold number of elected officials will be in the area, with Speaker Pelosi (2nd in line to the Presidency behind the VP) following up the party on Monday, 11/21/08. The southeast Mpls quadrant (Crosstown/Hwy 55/I-494) will look just like other presidential-level visits, with MSP and fed agents crawling all over the place (above, below, around, inside), etc.

But as always, if this is your calling to TEST anything today or Monday, no need to arrange for the camera crews - the world will already have a front row seat (the ones not chasing the Pope around)!

Thanks for the heads up, I'm going to be in some of those areas this weekend.

Federal protective agents (especially USSS) are not folks I would want to have a "misunderstanding" with.

Reminds me of one of the times I worked technical production for a presidential visit (I've done a number of those). One of my sound team was getting the infamous pin for backstage access, but wasn't familiar with the meaning of it. For those of you who don't know, this is a little lapel pin that is similar in size to the ones issued to other staffers.

He asked the agent, "Why do I need this little pin on me?"

The agent replied (deadly serious), "So if you're backstage we know not to shoot you on sight."

His immediate followup question: "Can I get a bigger pin!??!?"



-Mark