Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive
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Fun with open carry
http://ellegon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13331		 Page 4 of 6
Author:  Hunter07 [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
Dave Pendleton wrote:
You just don't get it, do you?

While it may be 'hard to understand'. there IS a politician/parasite the 'regular people' can abide by. :bang: :roll:
Author:  Fubar [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
Harland wrote:
I don't suppose Attention Deficit disorder would work here ... :)

Look, something shiny!!!
:D
Author:  EJSG19 [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
Here is just a passing thought, not necessarily the view I support:

Wal-Mart employee's telling you that you might be scaring the other customers is probably exactly how they see it. You are 1 person in a store full of XX number of other customers. So asking you to leave is weeding out the 1 trouble maker in 100 other paying customers. Using the argument of taking your business elsewhere and hitting them in the pocketbook may not hold a lot of water for Walmart as a company. (Assuming you are someone working for, and subscribing to Walmart's likely viewpoint.) This is a for profit company, and they'll do what gives them the best chance for the most profits. That means you as a single person need to go, if you are scaring away 99 other paying customers. *ok, anti-hat is now coming off*

Just keep in mind the environment we live in. Right now the majority of folks are probably quicker to fear, than understanding.

Now, after all that, the answer is not to just leave it alone. Nothing will improve for the carry cause that way. But there are better ways of getting our message across than others. As a favor to everyone else, make sure your method of protest/education/information is one that will have a positive reflection on the carry community, and not a negative one. From what I see in this thread, I haven't read much that would be considered negative with Harland's actions. Definitely pays to know the statute if you are going to go to bat on the issues with the other side.
Author:  Dave Pendleton [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
Harland wrote:
Dave Pendleton wrote:
Harland wrote:
So then they can't really have it both ways (legally speaking that is,) If they allow carry they must allow open carry?


You just don't get it, do you?


Lighten up Dave. What I said above is technically true. The law does allow for both. It is more clear to me now though, that the store can circumvent the statute in a variety of ways while still remaining legally in "the right" Ultimately this gets back to working with management to establish where they stand on the matter.


No, you just don't get it. They're not circumventing anything. They are legally in "the right" if they ban carry or if they allow carry (concealed or otherwise).

You have a permit to carry a pistol; not a permit to carry a pistol wherever you like regardless of what the PROPERTY OWNER desires.

Why is that so hard to understand?
Author:  joelr [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  In general
I think it's reasonable, by and large, for the owners/renters/managers of places of public accommodation -- places where the public is generally allowed, although they are private property -- to be able to refuse entry or service to anybody, for any reason, even silly ones.

That isn't, though, the law. If Al owns a store, and doesn't want Bruno or Claude or Donnie or Eustace or Fred to come there because they're, respectively, bald, black, gay, Jewish, or have nose hairs, he gets to enforce his wishes (assuming he expresses them honestly) for Bruno and Fred (and in some places, Donnie) but not for the others; we have laws that forbid him from banning them on those grounds.

Guy carrying a gun? We're somewhere in the middle there. In Minnesota, he can do it, more or less, if he goes one of two ways -- he posts a sign or otherwise makes his wishes known, and then (assuming that the gun carrier doesn't abide by the expressed wishes, which is pretty rare) demands that the gun carrier comply.

I think that's a fair compromise, but it is a compromise. I'm not sure it should be a legal issue, but a civility one.

In most places, at most times, I'm more than willing to comply with such wishes, no matter how they're expressed -- and I was very, very glad that my formerly (and once again) favorite coffee shop, Sister Sludge (46th and Bloomington) took down those silly No Guns signs. But even though they have, I wouldn't openly carry there, or walk in with a friend who was, because I think the triplets are uncomfortable with the sight of a gun on the hip of somebody who isn't a cop, and while I think that's a silly fear, they're nice ladies, it's their shop, and I don't want to either be uncomfortable in their shop, or around while somebody else was making them uncomfortable in their shop. But that's a personal thing; I didn't have any problem at all sitting next to a friend, yesterday, when we were at Dead Lobster, at the bar, him openly carrying and drinking heavily (he was hitting the SevenUp pretty hard -- no booze), while I just concealed, as usual, and sipped on half of a small margarita.

I'm not sure, for example, if I'm going to openly carry at the GRG -- I tend to overthink that sort of stuff, and I haven't decided where I come down on it, for me. Others get to do what they want.
Author:  cobb [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
Dave Pendleton wrote:
They're not circumventing anything. They are legally in "the right" if they ban carry or if they allow carry (concealed or otherwise).

You have a permit to carry a pistol; not a permit to carry a pistol wherever you like regardless of what the PROPERTY OWNER desires.


+1 :!:
Author:  Harland [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Fun with open carry... The Final Chapter
I want to preface the "final" chapter in this tale with the following:


I joined the Twin Cities Carry boards for the following reasons:

1. To educate myself further about the carry culture, law, and other issues surrounding the possession and use of a pistol in Minnesota.
I know a lot more than some on handguns. Much less than others. At my recent carry class a new user brought with him a new Glock Pistol and
ammunition. I thought he might need a friend and some help so I paused to give him assistance loading his pistol. Unfortunately, he had
purchased 9mm ammo for a .40 caliber pistol. He had no idea. This was not cryptic thing for most experienced users, but for him, it was.
Perhaps I didn't avert a crisis, but it would have been a very unpleasant "reintroduction" to the shooting sports. I say reintroduction
because this man, having had an accidental discharge with a firearm as a youth, was genuinely fearful and HAD NOT TOUCHED a firearm since
that time.

On another recent occasion I was at Cabelas shopping for ammo and a gentleman
standing next to me didn't realize that 9mm Luger ammunition was the same 9mm ammo
that you and I just refer to as "9 Mil" The "Luger" thing threw him off. Clearly he was "less educated" than many on this matter.

When confronted with "uneducated" people, I naturally want to help them and educate them. There are many in the world, it seem, who choose
to badger and demean. Well jolly f***in' good for you. I hope at the end of the day you sleep better, knowing that you are smarter, more good looking and are
generally a better human being than the less educated trolls you look down on. Thank God you are in the minority.

Perhaps, I will have one or two less "friends" now- I don't care. I am right.
Not better than anyone, just right.

2. Fellowship

Perhaps I should go to Church if I really want fellowship, but this is one avenue I use to connect with others who share a common passion
for firearms, self-defense, etc.
Each post I create, every word I write, reveals who I am to some degree. Maybe you will like who I am. Maybe you will not. I honestly,
truly DO NOT CARE. I know who I am, and for the most part am happy with that man.

In a lifetime a man is lucky to have more than a handful of genuine friends. I am
under no illusion that everyone here will be my friend, nor is that important to me.
For those of you who, again, who are simply here to antagonize, please feel free to not
participate in the threads that I post. I will simply appear glib to you, as that
is how I deal with such situations.


So... On to: Fun with Open Carry- The Final Chapter


Yesterday, about 4:30 I'm done with work and need some coffee, etc.
Since there is this open carry thing hanging unresolved, I seek out
the store manager in an effort to resolve the open carry issue.

I ask for the store manager, but am told that he just walked out the door.
The "second in charge" is Mary (a co-manager?) She is at the customer service
counter. I approach her and relate to her the "incident" that occurred with
Greg in loss-prevention, explaining that I am a valid Minnesota permit holder.
Mary, immediately goes into a somewhat "apologetic" mode explaining that Greg has
recently arrived from Iowa and was trained in the Twin Cities where he has
apparently been trained to "discourage" the open carry of firearms. She assures
me that open carry is OK.

Interestingly, Mary who is from Minnesota, relates to me that she had for a time
worked at a Wal Mart store in Arizona, where as we all know,
open carry is not at all uncommon.

So... The sky did not fall. I can proudly carry my pistol openly in Walmart,
and I can say that I represented the carry community in a courteous
and dignified manner.

BTW, thank you Joel for your useful and non-combative contribution to this thread.
Author:  DeanC [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
Sounds like you did all right, H. Hopefully Greg will be informed his job is to worry about people carrying concealed merchandise and not people carrying guns openly.
Author:  RLS59 [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
Harland, thank you for taking the time to talk to a manager and get clarification on this matter for us.
I'm sorry some felt the need to come down so harshly on you. I, for one, think you represented us well.
Author:  djeepp [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
RLS59 wrote:
Harland, thank you for taking the time to talk to a manager and get clarification on this matter for us.
I'm sorry some felt the need to come down so harshly on you. I, for one, think you represented us well.

+1

It's unfortunate that some on this board feel the need to berate people for asking questions that they feel are below their pay grade. Most of us are not of that thinking and are capable of having a civil conversation without resorting to insults and the all to common "Did you search?". Your course of action couldn't be more correct and civil and I for one will continue to chearfully open carry at my nearest Walmart.

Please just ignore those that converse at a fifth grade level and continue to bring valuable threads like this one.
Author:  Greg [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
RLS59 wrote:
Harland, thank you for taking the time to talk to a manager and get clarification on this matter for us.
I'm sorry some felt the need to come down so harshly on you. I, for one, think you represented us well.


+1
Author:  ScottM [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
Well done Harland you imperialist you. 8)
Author:  Harland [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
ScottM wrote:
Well done Harland you imperialist you. 8)


I'm so touched you remembered. :wink:
Author:  jmw55018 [ Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
harland i got your back. i live in dennison and i shop at wally world in faribualt all the time. i have neve open carried there yet. i was concerned about being asked to leave but i think i might get up the bravery to try it now. thank you for your post here.

i had no idea you were so close to me.

have you checked out
Froyums gun shop? its about the only place i will buy a gun from anymore. they run a great little mom and pop place where a guy can just stop in to shoot the bull or shoot his gun if he wants.
Author:  Harland [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fun with open carry
jmw55018 wrote:
harland i got your back. i live in dennison and i shop at wally world in faribualt all the time. i have neve open carried there yet. i was concerned about being asked to leave but i think i might get up the bravery to try it now. thank you for your post here.

i had no idea you were so close to me.

have you checked out
Froyums gun shop? its about the only place i will buy a gun from anymore. they run a great little mom and pop place where a guy can just stop in to shoot the bull or shoot his gun if he wants.


Thanks for your support Sir. I was a little nervous about it at first as well. Perhaps you and I can work together to represent how responsible gun owners act while carrying firearms for self-defense in Faribault. While I understand the paranoia people have (to some degree) of firearms in the city, there are very few people in this area that have not had the benefit a positive exposure to guns on family farms, through hunting, etc. So the assertion by some that our actions will frighten, intimidate or cause panic, are for the most part without merit in this region. This doesn't mean that I am insensitive to the fear that a few still have - I just think a little education goes a very long way.

I have not been to Froyums, I will have to check it out. (looks like it's in Zumbrota?) What kind of shooting facilities do they have?
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