Story as reported in WCCO:

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_078110804.html

Leaving restuarant with child, approached by perp who demands purse. Woman cooperates, handing over purse. Perp shoots her son after the purse is recieved.

Well, thank you Sarah Brady for teaching people to cooperate with violent felons, because, after all, it's only common sense that a violent, socio-pathic criminal can be trusted to not hurt you if you cooperate. But then again, I've never understood why the cities with the highest crime rates are given "A" ratings by the Brady Campaign.

Well, the perp lines up his gun on your kid or my kid, I don't need Micheal Moore or Jane Fonda or Rosie O'Donnel to tell me that my kid's life isn't worth saving, so [deleted] them.

Because to the Brady Bunch and their ilk it is not about crime control, it is about people control. Any tool that could be used to support the notion of self reliance is an evil tool. Particularly if said tool is a gun.

Thanks, lance22.


I just made a copy of that story and e-mailed it to my friends who know (and are not concerned) that I carry.

Maybe they will start thinking about themselves.

My deepest sympathy for the family. Of course, it was the gun's fault, right Sarah?

The Bradys love unarmed victims and so do criminals.

The "child" was 25. That notwithstanding, this is exactly why I'm trying to get a functional patrol started here in Uptown. This was on my street, just 3 blocks from my house.

Lets put together a shopping march in uptown and open carry and walk around uptown for a few hrs. On 3-23rd Thursday at 6:15 PM. We can do a press release. Lets try to get 50 people together on this. The police can't help the shoppers. Lets surport the shops in uptown that day. More info call me 612-827-3832

Please note this is a shopping march NOT a Patrol

I'm in. I may have to bring my puppy, an 11-month-old Rottweiler. He'll have been cooped up in his kennel all day and I don't want to make him spend the entire night in his crate too. He's a good dog and he likes to shop.

Lets show the shops in uptown that we will support them by buying from their shops. Lets meet at the shop here, this week to plan out what we should do and how. Or meet here on that day about 45 mins before we go out. Lets do this right.

From the Star Tribune:



Well, these folks traveled in groups*, parked in a well-lit area**, didn't fight back***, and got shot anyway. I'm sure that they're comforted by the fact that robberies in Uptown only result in victims getting shot about once or twice a year.



How's this?

Safety tips from people with their eyes open include avoiding high-crime areas like Uptown, carrying a gun and fighting back as if their life depended on it -- because it may.

When someone comes running at you in a situation like that, at what point are you justified to draw and shoot? These people were clearly unstable, violent psychopaths presenting an immediate threat to the lives of the victims, but at what point was that made clear to the point of justifying the use of legal force?

I had a friend who was mugged near Snelling and Marshall a couple of years back and in that case the threat was made clear. The man shouted as he ran towards my friend, "Give me your money, nigger bitch. I have a gun." (For the record my friend is white and his assailant was black.) My friend is an anti-hippy-bliss-ninny, and he says he never felt as if his life was actually in danger. I would have reacted much differently, drawing and firing into the man's center of mass the moment he said, "Give me your money." My friend never saw a gun--the guy had his hand in his pocket--but the moment the man threatened my life and said he had a gun, I would have surmised that my life was in immediate danger and reacted accordingly.

But in this case the danger seems both less clearly verbalized and more immediate and life threatening. The advice of the experts on this list would be much appreciated for future reference.

Here's the URL for that quote:

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/317316.html

Here's some more stories:

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=121161

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S14943.html?cat=1

In answer to Lobotomy Boy:

The perp doesn't know what pocket you keep your money in. When they make their demand, you are justified in saying "okay, okay, let me get that for you" while drawwing your weapon and then following the course of action the perp demands. If for example the guy stops moving toward you puts his hands up and and says, "whoa man, shit, I was just bull shitting, I don't mean for anybody to get hurt" then you might keep your gun on them while calling 911 on your cell phone . . . . or if they present a weapon, cap'em . . . . . or if they keep moving toward you, cap'em.

Every situation is different though & there will always be some contingency that you could have pursued rather than shooting. . . you could instead of drawing ask him about his feelings about his mother and then give him a peace and mutual love talk, make a donation to his cause, and show him the understanding that you know it isn't his fault, it is really GWB's and those darn record labels that won't give him a billion dollars for expressing himself in a microphone. But pusuing those actions may get you shot in the head.

As for me - if a threat verbalizes on approach, it is time to draw, if they continue to approach or act in a threatening manner, such as reaching in their pocket for a gun, knife, screwdriver, box cutter, etc. it is time to shoot. If they run away, cool. If they run toward, bang.

Where do we stand legally drawing and possibly shooting someone demanding our wallets? If they don't immediately present a weapon but have their hands in their pocket?

My guess is that theoretically at least, someone pulling a gun on me has me in fear for my life, and it's copacetic.

My fear is that our County Attorney would disagree and claim that I was using deadly force to protect property, and it's hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to Stillwater I go, Mr. Gross' skills and my life savings notwithstanding.