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 When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations 
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 Post subject: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:19 am 
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In the Firby DGU in Florida, the victim was driving home in the early hours of the morning and was followed. Despite this, he continued to his house, where he deterred a robbery attempt.

Conventional wisdom is that he should have driven to the nearest police station.

Particularly in Minnesota, I don't think that's especially workable. With the regionalization of dispatch and the separation of dispatch activities from those of uniformed officers, few outstate police stations are staffed outside daytime, weekday hours.

Let's take Northfield as an example. A growing, exurban community just outside the 7 county metro, Northfield regionalized its dispatch as a cost-saving measure. Police are now dispatched from Pearl Street dispatch in Owatonna, a facility which is itself closed to the public. The combined police/fire station in Northfield is not staffed outside daytime hours. The Rice County Sheriff's office likewise has closed its duty desk as a result of regionalization leaving only COs at the jail on duty.


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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:34 am 
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I drove to a police station, once.

It was just because I was an idiot. I was coming out of Cub Foods, and there was a bit of an altercation in the parking lot. A young woman -- pretty obviously the girlfriend of the idiot who was trying to get her to get into his car -- was objecting to leaving with him and his friends.

I was going to do my usual thing and mind my own business while discreetly calling 911, but a little old Norski lady gathered three of us up by eye -- me; some big guy in overalls who looked like his name was Bubba, and it probably was; and a black guy in a suit -- and dragged us over to explain to the young fellow that she didn't much care how they did things in Mexico, but here, when a young lady doesn't want a ride, she doesn't get a ride. The language barrier made it difficult to get the subtleties across, but Bubba put a couple of exclamation points on it, and eventually, the girl fled back into the supermarket, and I figured there were other places to be.

Except that the young lad and his friends decided that they needed to continue the discussion with somebody, and picked me. So I just headed over to the precinct house, parked out front next to a squad, and they quickly decided that they had another appointment. I bought my GPS the next day, for some reason or other.

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:49 pm 
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I doubt I would drive 10 or 15 minutes to get to the sheriff's office. My house would be a preferred choice to retreat to, unless I didn't want the person/s to know where I lived.

Joel, did you happen to get the license plate number? You can call in people for road rage type behaviors.

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:52 pm 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
I doubt I would drive 10 or 15 minutes to get to the sheriff's office. My house would be a preferred choice to retreat to, unless I didn't want the person/s to know where I lived.

Joel, did you happen to get the license plate number? You can call in people for road rage type behaviors.
Nope; they didn't have a front plate, alas. I had called it in -- figured a reception party might be nice, if they followed me all the way -- but I was on hold the whole time with the precinct, as I'd called in on their direct line.

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:51 pm 
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Ham Radio. GPS. Permit to Carry.

The first two aren't just toys, but lifelines to augment the third, most effective and final lifeline.

Having been followed for six and a half miles or so one night after closing the store I worked at and making the bank drop, I ended up losing the followers on a gravel back-road a few miles from my house. After that night, I'd carried a Snapple bottle filled with roofing nails as a "persuit contermeasure" under the seat, a six D-cell maglight clamped to the door with those plastic maglite clips, and a two and a half foot crowbar between the front seats.

That happened in the days before cellphones were as commonplace as they are now, and before you could count on any kind of coverage once you got south of the Shakopee/Burnsville/Lakeville area.

Then I got my HAM radio license and with it a slightly increased sense of security. Now, any time I could raise a person on the radio, I could summon help. The GPS that came later made finding services easier and made the "where in the hell am I" moments a thing of the past. The crowning piece, that one part that got me to stow the maglight in the trunk and the crowbar in the toolbox was the permit.

Today, being older and wiser, there are a lot of things I've learned and would do differently. I would go to one of the gas stations that's open 24/7, to start. I won't drive down a dead-end road where I could get blocked in. I wo't get out of my car late at night without being armed. I keep the cellphone charged.

Here's the most interesting part, somthing of which I kinda knew already, but really didn't attach any significance to. First, the FCC regs:

Quote:
TITLE 47 - TELECOMMUNICATION
CHAPTER I - FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
SUBCHAPTER D - SAFETY AND SPECIAL RADIO SERVICES
PART 97 - AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE

subpart e - PROVIDING EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS
97.405 - Station in distress.
(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.


As a station in distress (in this case, being persued by someone whose intentions are unclear) I can use any frequency to attract attention and summon help. Cool.

Here's the part I thought was really cool... Pretty much every dispatch center uses 155.475 as a interagency operation frequency. Here in MN it's called MINSEF, for Minnesota Statewide Emergency Frequency. In Wisconsin, the frequency is the same, the name is changed to WISPERN: Wisconsin Police Emergency Radio Network. You get the point.

Did I have a point? Hmmm... Oh, yeah. Here it goes...

It turns out 155.475, at least for now, is federally allocated as a NATIONAL police interagency channel.

Why is this so cool?

Anywhere I am, Nationwide, whether I'm in cellular telephone range or not, somewhere out there is an officer monitoring 155.475. It's a little like a "FLASH OVERRIDE" that circumvents the ammount of time neccessary to go through a dispatch center to a regional office to a regional dispatcher who then sends the officer to your aid. It also negates the time (possibly vainly) spent trying to call for any stations that might be listening on CB channel 19 or National Simplex Channels. This puts you in direct contact with the nearest officer to your location. Of course it's only something I would use if everything else has failed and I'm running from someone intent on harm. Or someone's actively bleeding to death at my location.

Kinda a long threadjack, but there it is.

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:25 pm 
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Binky .357 wrote:
Ham Radio. GPS. Permit to Carry.
Quote:
TITLE 47 - TELECOMMUNICATION
CHAPTER I - FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
SUBCHAPTER D - SAFETY AND SPECIAL RADIO SERVICES
PART 97 - AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE

subpart e - PROVIDING EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS
97.405 - Station in distress.
(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.


As a station in distress (in this case, being persued by someone whose intentions are unclear) I can use any frequency to attract attention and summon help. Cool.

Here's the part I thought was really cool... Pretty much every dispatch center uses 155.475 as a interagency operation frequency. Here in MN it's called MINSEF, for Minnesota Statewide Emergency Frequency. In Wisconsin, the frequency is the same, the name is changed to WISPERN: Wisconsin Police Emergency Radio Network. You get the point.

Did I have a point? Hmmm... Oh, yeah. Here it goes...

It turns out 155.475, at least for now, is federally allocated as a NATIONAL police interagency channel.

Why is this so cool?

Anywhere I am, Nationwide, whether I'm in cellular telephone range or not, somewhere out there is an officer monitoring 155.475. It's a little like a "FLASH OVERRIDE" that circumvents the ammount of time neccessary to go through a dispatch center to a regional office to a regional dispatcher who then sends the officer to your aid. It also negates the time (possibly vainly) spent trying to call for any stations that might be listening on CB channel 19 or National Simplex Channels. This puts you in direct contact with the nearest officer to your location. Of course it's only something I would use if everything else has failed and I'm running from someone intent on harm. Or someone's actively bleeding to death at my location.

Kinda a long threadjack, but there it is.


Long threadjack, but something I didn't know. Maybe I need to step up getting my Ham License...


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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:35 pm 
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Granted, you need a slightly modified Ham Radio to do this, but it's childs play to figure out. One website that used to be pretty good was www.mods.dk

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Our dispatch often has the volume of MINSEF turned way down... Not a lot of traffic on that freq. and many others that are whining for attention.

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:18 pm 
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tman065 wrote:
Our dispatch often has the volume of MINSEF turned way down... Not a lot of traffic on that freq. and many others that are whining for attention.


Just wondering... do the individual squads keep MINSEF turned down or is it just dispatch?

It would seem that if the channel is part of the scan rotation on the squad radio, turning down that channel would result in other radio traffic not being heard.

Dispatch not hearing the chatter on channel would limit the range, but at 50W into a higher gain antenna should allow the call to be heard for about 7-10 miles, right? That's guessing relatively conservatively, if I remember right. And what about the "hard patch" that links it to the new ARMER system?

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Whoa threadjack, but what the hey...

Most dispatch centers in Hennepin tend to have MINSEF turned down as it's not part of the ARMER system which everyone uses to communicate these days. In fact, dispatch centers used to use MINSEF to talk to each other but now they have their own specific talkgroup called METCOM. As for the guys and gals in the squad cars, they all use ARMER radios as well which doesn't include MINSEF. In fact, there is no longer a MINSEF talkgroup, if an officer needs to communicate with a non-ARMER user, a dispatcher has to patch MINSEF to some sort of tactical talkgroup such as an LTAC or PTAC. An officer cannot initiate these radio patches from in the field.

Out-state your odds are better as only the metro area, Rochester, and Stearns county have made the switch to the ARMER system (I believe Duluth is next).

Although not a dependable solution, it's better than a kick in the nuts. Unfortunately I think you'd face another obstacle in that I suspect a dispatcher who heard you may think you're prank. Your cell phone is still your best option.

As for the FCC rules, my gut tells me part 97.405 only pertains to the frequencies designated to amateur radio as a primary or secondary user. Modifying your radio to transmit out-of-band removes the FCC type acceptance certification of the radio, so I hardly doubt the feds are suggesting you should illegally modify your radio "just in case" of an emergency. Of course, fighting to keep your amateur radio license means you survived the incident and I would consider that to at least be marginally better than being dead.


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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Perhaps in these situations exiting a vehicle isn't the most tactical option, but I believe most police departments that don't keep their lobby open 24/7 at least provide a "bat phone" that directly links one to their dispatch center.


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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:29 am 
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Fubar wrote:
Whoa threadjack, but what the hey...

Most dispatch centers in Hennepin tend to have MINSEF turned down as it's not part of the ARMER system which everyone uses to communicate these days. In fact, dispatch centers used to use MINSEF to talk to each other but now they have their own specific talkgroup called METCOM. As for the guys and gals in the squad cars, they all use ARMER radios as well which doesn't include MINSEF. In fact, there is no longer a MINSEF talkgroup, if an officer needs to communicate with a non-ARMER user, a dispatcher has to patch MINSEF to some sort of tactical talkgroup such as an LTAC or PTAC. An officer cannot initiate these radio patches from in the field.

Cool, thanks for the MINSEF info; I'm speaking of the "Red Phone" option as a last resort in the rural, non-ARMER areas where cell service at its best is spotty.

Quote:
Out-state your odds are better as only the metro area, Rochester, and Stearns county have made the switch to the ARMER system (I believe Duluth is next).

Yup. And the areas that have switched have better, more reliable cell-service, where I would be calling on the cell phone first.

Quote:
Although not a dependable solution, it's better than a kick in the nuts. Unfortunately I think you'd face another obstacle in that I suspect a dispatcher who heard you may think you're prank. Your cell phone is still your best option.

You may be right; and I've tossed that thought around as well. This is where persistence would be key. Keep sending that cal for help, as well as your own call-sign and whatever information they may request. But be persistant.

Quote:
As for the FCC rules, my gut tells me part 97.405 only pertains to the frequencies designated to amateur radio as a primary or secondary user. Modifying your radio to transmit out-of-band removes the FCC type acceptance certification of the radio, so I hardly doubt the feds are suggesting you should illegally modify your radio "just in case" of an emergency. Of course, fighting to keep your amateur radio license means you survived the incident and I would consider that to at least be marginally better than being dead.

The way I (and others, among them cops) have read the law, the part where it says "any means to attract attention" is a magic bullet of sorts... FRS, GMRS, MURS, Business Band, Aviation frequencies, Police... if your life is in serious danger, anything goes. That's one reading.

As it has been explained to me, modifying the radio doesn't really remove the type-acceptance in that it's still a HAM radio transmitter at its core; primarily designed to operate within specifications set forth by the FCC. It wouldn't be acceptable to use it primarily as an FRS radio, or a MURS radio, or to run a business on a frequency you hold the license for. On those freqencies the type-acceptance violation would be a no-no.

Of course, these are all things I've "just heard"... one or two of the people I've heard them from were police officers, one other was a lawyer, but you're right in that outside of a court-room setting, idle chat over a beer or two doesn't equal sound legal advice.

If it ever came to mortal danger, I would be able to hold my head up high in a court of law and say "There was no other option to establish contact with the appropriate agency. My life was in serious danger. I did what I had to do to survive." I'd let a jury decide if I'd acted appropriately.

Here's to the hope that I never find myself needing to find out in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:27 pm 
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If my life were in danger the last thing I would be worrying about would be violating some FCC regulation. They have the power to suspend or revoke your license administratively, and anything beyond that requires them to take you to court, which they won't unless you've been engaging in far more egregious behavior (like running a pirate broadcast station for months and months and not stopping when the ask nicely).

But we're off in 10,000 goblins territory now, IMO. You're unlikely to have a goof follow you around in, say, Lac Qui Parle county unless it's personal.


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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Back to the original topic at hand, if you're in the suburban metro and being followed your best bet is to head to a bar that's open (assuming it's before 2 AM). The suburban LEOs tend to spend most of their time in the wee hours fishing for DUIs on the major roads right around these bars. If it's right after 2 AM you've at least got a fighting chance that one or more will be at the PD processing their catch for the evening through since most are released the same night.

Worst case scenario, get on a major road and haul ass. If traveling fast enough you are virtually guaranteed to attract law enforcement attention. I'd rather face a speeding fine than a shootout with a potential group of BGs, and you may be able to direct the officer to the offending vehicle if they take note of how close they were following.

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 Post subject: Re: When followed - Land of 10,000 lakes and no police stations
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:17 pm 
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Back on topic:

Make as much noise as possible. Make yourself as juicy a target for law enforcement as possible.

Play your car stereo loud, honk your horn, rev/race your engine. If it's safe to do so, blow through red lights/stop signs. Drive over lawns and cause as much of a ruckus as possible. Throw firecrackers out your window if you have them. Anything-ANYTHING to draw attention to your plight.

I'm not being sarcastic or talking tongue in cheek here, but realistic. Anything you can safely do to raise an alarm, do it! In a seriously dangerous situation you've got to get past the mindset that you're doing something, anything illegal. The point is to survive the encouter so that you can go home and kiss your spouse and/or children and tell them you love them after the adrenaline has worn off and the questions have been answered.

Do what you have to do to make it home safe.

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