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 Fun with open carry 
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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:35 am 
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Easy boys. Asking Walmart to clarify their position, politely, isn't likely to ruffle feathers. Simply state it along the lines of, "There seems to be some inconsistency, and I'd just like to know what the company policy actually is so that I may respect your wishes when shopping there."

That should get you a nice, straight response without any noses getting tweaked.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:45 am 
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JimC wrote:
Don't let your ego create more problems for open carry and all permit holders.


OK. Jim, I know this will probably not be the last word from those of you who think that I ought to let sleeping dogs lie. If you knew me better, perhaps you'd understand that this is not an ego thing. Perhaps I can meet all of you one day and you'll realize that I'm not some nutjob trying to stir up shi*. I don't think I can explain myself any better than I have in this thread. Perhaps I'm not smart enough, have too big of an ego, and all of you who disagree are right and it's just me who is wrong here. I don't think so though. Thanks for those who bring a balanced viewpoint to this thread. For those who disagree with me, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that I should just let something important to me fall by the wayside. This is America. I hope you can respect my right to hold an opinion that is different than yours.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:14 am 
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Harland, I for one would be interested in hearing what their official policy is. I don't get the impression that you're going to push the issue on management; sounds like you are just going to ask for a clarification (similar to what I suggested above). Others may disagree, but I don't see the harm if worded correctly.

Now, all, I know OC is a hot issue around these parts. We're going on 3 pages with a relatively civil discussion, PLEASE, let's keep it that way. If it goes personal...well, you know where that leads.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:39 pm 
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FWIW, I OC'd in the New Ulm Wally World a little bit ago.

Used my pickup to haul the neighbors pool up there so she could exchange it for a smaller one. I loaded it on the cart and dragged it inside to the CS counter. Then we left it there, snagged another cart and went back to grab a smaller one, then back to Cs to do the exchange transaction. Left right after that.

Nobody said a word about my big ol' 'scary' 1911A1 riding peacefully and securely in my holster on my belt. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Hunter07 wrote:
FWIW, I OC'd in the New Ulm Wally World a little bit ago.

Used my pickup to haul the neighbors pool up there so she could exchange it for a smaller one. I loaded it on the cart and dragged it inside to the CS counter. Then we left it there, snagged another cart and went back to grab a smaller one, then back to Cs to do the exchange transaction. Left right after that.

Nobody said a word about my big ol' 'scary' 1911A1 riding peacefully and securely in my holster on my belt. :mrgreen:


Go figure, and I was just wearing my Mak ... Maybe I just need a more respectable gun. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:02 pm 
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Have you looked here at all? I can't imagine this isn't ground that hasn't been (un?)covered before.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:00 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
Have you looked here at all? I can't imagine this isn't ground that hasn't been (un?)covered before.


Yes, I have but the two links that I previously posted:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/27366.html and

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/07/04/02/editor.htm

Seem to point to an acute lack of communication (and consistency) from corporate.

I guess I shouldn't be that surprised.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:19 pm 
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Dick Unger wrote:
It's then a civil matter, really. (It's very easy and likely for the situation to turn in to something else.) But but if they store asks the police to remove you because of your gun, the police are SUPPOSED to tell them that since they are not posted the police cannot do that.


That was technically the case in 2003, but not since 2005.

624.714 17(b) wrote:
(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the following circumstances:

(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign at every entrance to the establishment containing the following language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES."; or

(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally informs the person that guns are prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.

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 Post subject: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:25 pm 
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As I recall several years ago, There was a court case, (I think it wet up thru several court levels) about people with STRONG body order being asked to leave the Public Library. Seems the "Bums" had moved into the Library, warm, Comfortable, Quiet. Seems the Smell was bothering others in the Library. When asked to leave the ACLU stepped in and got the "Bum Rush" past the powers to be. I don't use the library much. If I open carry there, they can ask me to leave? I'm not counting on the ACLU to help me, In fact, I'm not gonna be the test case. Just thinking out loud.

DE KA0OLD

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:43 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
Dick Unger wrote:
It's then a civil matter, really. (It's very easy and likely for the situation to turn in to something else.) But but if they store asks the police to remove you because of your gun, the police are SUPPOSED to tell them that since they are not posted the police cannot do that.


That was technically the case in 2003, but not since 2005.

624.714 17(b) wrote:
(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the following circumstances:

(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign at every entrance to the establishment containing the following language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES."; or

(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally informs the person that guns are prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.


So then they can't really have it both ways (legally speaking that is,) If they allow carry they must allow open carry?

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"There are good men and bad men of all nationalities, creeds and colors; and if this world of ours is ever to become what we hope some day it may become, it must be by the general recognition that the man's heart and soul, the man's worth and actions, determine his standing."
-Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Harland wrote:
So then they can't really have it both ways (legally speaking that is,) If they allow carry they must allow open carry?

No, I don't think so. Their ability to ban open carry comes from the fact they are a private entity operating on private property. They can kick you out for any reason they want, as long as you're not a member of a protected class (disabled, minority, etc).

IANAL, but the fact the carry law only specifies that the petty-misdemeanor ticket can be issued if Wal-Mart banned all firearms, it would not be used if you refused to leave the store after being asked. The police would instead play a different card from the rather large deck of laws they carry and you'll still get a nice fine, probably larger than what the carry law specifies. A trespass notice would also likely be issued, making it a crime for you to return to the property. The law may not make a distinction between open and concealed carry (yay!), but private entities sure can.

I do agree with your premise that it would be beneficial for those that openly carry firearms if Wal-Mart's policies would be evenly applied throughout their entire kingdom, however the number of customers who openly carry firearms unfortunately is not a sufficiently large enough to for Wal-Mart to care if you take your business elsewhere unless they spend the time and energy to resolve this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:57 pm 
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Fubar wrote:
IANAL, but the fact the carry law only specifies that the petty-misdemeanor ticket can be issued if Wal-Mart banned all firearms, it would not be used if you refused to leave the store after being asked. The police would instead play a different card from the rather large deck of laws they carry and you'll still get a nice fine, probably larger than what the carry law specifies. A trespass notice would also likely be issued, making it a crime for you to return to the property. The law may not make a distinction between open and concealed carry (yay!), but private entities sure can.


I think Fubar is pretty much on the money here. I don't think that the subtleties of the carry law are going to stop the police from giving you the $25 ticket (you might be able to contest it), but I agree that if they decide to get you outside of the carry law, you're gonna smart.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Fubar wrote:
They can kick you out for any reason they want, as long as you're not a member of a protected class (disabled, minority, etc).


I don't suppose Attention Deficit disorder would work here ... :)

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"There are good men and bad men of all nationalities, creeds and colors; and if this world of ours is ever to become what we hope some day it may become, it must be by the general recognition that the man's heart and soul, the man's worth and actions, determine his standing."
-Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Harland wrote:
So then they can't really have it both ways (legally speaking that is,) If they allow carry they must allow open carry?


You just don't get it, do you?


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Dave Pendleton wrote:
Harland wrote:
So then they can't really have it both ways (legally speaking that is,) If they allow carry they must allow open carry?


You just don't get it, do you?


Lighten up Dave. What I said above is technically true. The law does allow for both. It is more clear to me now though, that the store can circumvent the statute in a variety of ways while still remaining legally in "the right" Ultimately this gets back to working with management to establish where they stand on the matter.

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-Theodore Roosevelt


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