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 How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders? 
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 Post subject: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:37 am 
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How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?

A good buddy of mine works for a local PD, and I was doing a ride along a few weeks ago. The question came up about the carry permit, and how he would ID a permit holder. His assumption was when he ran a plate or a DL, the field in his computer labeled "DNR Firearms Training" (Y or N) was the permit field, but when we ran mine I was listed as a "N", so that does not make sense.

Anyone out there know the answer to this? He did not know.

I did a few searches but found nothing conclusive.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:45 am 
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The only firearms-related item they'll see on the squad computer is DNR Firearms Training, which, as you discovered, is not a carry permit. There's a number they can call to check if an individual has a permit to carry.

It's kind of scary that there are officers out there who don't know the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:50 am 
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Huh, so they would actually have to call a number? Seems silly, as there is so much info already reported back from the state on a person/car, wouldn't you think it could just be another field in their display?

Anyone know the number to call? Maybe we can work a little education here for them...


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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:56 am 
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Sean Reagan wrote:
Huh, so they would actually have to call a number? Seems silly, as there is so much info already reported back from the state on a person/car, wouldn't you think it could just be another field in their display?

Anyone know the number to call? Maybe we can work a little education here for them...


Do not make waves on this. The law was set up this way on purpose. I'm sure Kimberman or similar will be along to explain in a bit...

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:10 am 
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Sean Reagan wrote:
How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?


Answer: They ask, can I see your permit.

I can think of no legitimate reason for them to need to "ID" a permit holder if the stop is not related to the carrying of the firearm.


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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:21 am 
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Sean Reagan wrote:
Huh, so they would actually have to call a number? Seems silly, as there is so much info already reported back from the state on a person/car, wouldn't you think it could just be another field in their display?

You would think so, but I'm glad it's not. There are a handful of cops out there who still aren't very comfortable with the fact that ordinary law-abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns, and I'd rather not be hassled or otherwise inconvenienced (e.g. proned out and disarmed) if I encounter such an officer.

Keep in mind that when the plates are run, it's the registered owner's info that shows up. In plenty of cases, the registered owner will not be the person operating the vehicle.


*edited to remove incorrect information


Last edited by macphisto on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:21 am 
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rthib wrote:
Sean Reagan wrote:
How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?


Answer: They ask, can I see your permit.

I can think of no legitimate reason for them to need to "ID" a permit holder if the stop is not related to the carrying of the firearm.


Yep. There's no need for them to see that on their screen when they run your plate or your driver's license. Kinda like they don't need to know how many kids I have, marital status, where I work. etc....It's just kinda irrelevant.

However, I can see where law enforcement may need a way to verify a legitimate carry permit in certain circumstances....hence the phone number mentioned above.

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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:32 am 
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Sean Reagan wrote:
How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?

A good buddy of mine works for a local PD, and I was doing a ride along a few weeks ago. The question came up about the carry permit, and how he would ID a permit holder. His assumption was when he ran a plate or a DL, the field in his computer labeled "DNR Firearms Training" (Y or N) was the permit field, but when we ran mine I was listed as a "N", so that does not make sense.

Anyone out there know the answer to this? He did not know.

I did a few searches but found nothing conclusive.

Thanks

The DNR Firearms Training field shows, strangely enough, whether or not the driver has passed DNR firearms training. In theory, he can log on to the BCA database from his squad computer, and check on a person's permit status; in practice, on the rare occasion where he'll actually want to, for serious, he'll just call back to the station and have somebody there check on it.

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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:33 am 
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There's no state phone number. Officers can call or radio their dispatchers, who look it up in a state database, for the info. It could be integrated into the squad computers if any department took the time and money to do so; that it hasn't anywhere, yet, is evidence that the departments consider it a low or non-priority.

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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:48 am 
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So what about when you are pulled over for a traffic booboo. I was taught that it's always best to inform the officer that: a) I have a C & C permit and b) my gun is in the glove box (or wherever it may be). So what is the best procedure? Full disclosure or keep your lips sealed?

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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:52 am 
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alyx wrote:
So what about when you are pulled over for a traffic booboo. I was taught that it's always best to inform the officer that: a) I have a C & C permit and b) my gun is in the glove box (or wherever it may be). So what is the best procedure? Full disclosure or keep your lips sealed?


I was taught in my PTC class to answer all questions truthfully, but volunteer nothing else.

As an aside, my instructor also said that the best thing you can do when stopped is roll down windows and have your hands on your dash with palms up. I rather like that idea and can see where it would put the LEO at ease a little bit.

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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:55 am 
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Yes, be honest but don't provide information that is not asked for. And remember, in MN it's just a "C" permit, not a "C & C".

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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:56 am 
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alyx wrote:
So what about when you are pulled over for a traffic booboo. I was taught that it's always best to inform the officer that: a) I have a C & C permit and b) my gun is in the glove box (or wherever it may be). So what is the best procedure? Full disclosure or keep your lips sealed?

Just like you don't say BOMB anywhere near an airport, never say GUN to a police officer. Something like this is better: "Officer, I have a permit to carry...and I am carrying today. How would you like to proceed?" Only if you think it needs mentioning, though.

Who was your instructor?


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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:14 am 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
There's no state phone number. Officers can call or radio their dispatchers, who look it up in a state database, for the info. It could be integrated into the squad computers if any department took the time and money to do so; that it hasn't anywhere, yet, is evidence that the departments consider it a low or non-priority.


What he said.

Remember, permits are kept in a separate database that is not accessible to the public. And we like it that way just fine.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: How do MN Police Officers ID carry permit holders?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:20 am 
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alyx, there are two camps of thought on the subject of tell/don't tell. Just as with open carry, some will argue not to tell unless asked, as is required by law, and others, like me, will argue I prefer to share the info with the officer up front just to be sure there are no issues. There are several old threads on this, however, I do not recall we have debated the issue recently. My expereince is that to share I have a permit and go from there. Here is one outcome from this course of action. http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96&hilit=+stopped

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