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 Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card 
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 Post subject: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:40 am 
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Location: Anoka, MN
My girlfriend has her Permit To Carry. She recently moved so she went to notify the sheriff's office in person. She explained to the receptionist that she was only giving them an address that was designated to her by the "Safe at Home" program, not her new physical address, because any public or private entity MUST accept this as her true address. See Minnesota Rules Chapter 9290 https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/rules/?id=8290, and Minnesota Statutes Chapter 5B https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... ew=chapter. The DPS has already accepted this designated address and put it on her ID, albeit with a little resistance because they were unaware of the program and law.

The receptionist accepted this and my girlfriend's $10 for a replacement card. The receptionist said if there was any issue, they would call her. So a week later they did. She spoke with a "Jeff Parks", who told her they would not put a PO box address on a permit card because they won't mail a permit to a PO box. My girlfriend offered to pick it up in person, he declined. She reluctantly offered to disclose her real physical address if it would be kept confidential, but only if she would receive a permit with her designated "false" address, he declined.

She offered to write the Sheriff a letter explaining the circumstances,but then he started getting irritated. She offered to have someone at Safe at Home call him and explain how/why he must accept the designated address. Jeff Parks started to get angry and used foul language to say, "I shouldn't have to a waste another !@#$%^& day dealing with this !@#$".

My girlfriend asked what would happen if she just didn't get a replacement card, since she has no legal obligation to do so. Jeff Parks told her, "Good luck dealing with that! We'll see you in court if you want to cause problems!". She called me in tears at work because she was so upset that she had been treated this way. I don't know what I should do about this. I plan on moving into a place with my girlfriend eventually and I will have to enroll in the Safe at Home program as well, so I will have to deal with this myself. Any help/suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:30 pm 
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I believe that Joel might have a phone number or two of attorney's that specialize in denied permits. I suspect that this would fall under that umbrella.

Send him a PM, or most likely he has already contacted you, as he monitors the board fairly closely.


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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Traveler wrote:
I believe that Joel might have a phone number or two of attorney's that specialize in denied permits. I suspect that this would fall under that umbrella.

Send him a PM, or most likely he has already contacted you, as he monitors the board fairly closely.



I was going to say the same thing.. being that I'm a noobie, I've been reading a lot on here.


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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:30 pm 
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madrevar wrote:
My girlfriend has her Permit To Carry. She recently moved so she went to notify the sheriff's office in person. She explained to the receptionist that she was only giving them an address that was designated to her by the "Safe at Home" program, not her new physical address, because any public or private entity MUST accept this as her true address. See Minnesota Rules Chapter 9290 https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/rules/?id=8290, and Minnesota Statutes Chapter 5B https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... ew=chapter. The DPS has already accepted this designated address and put it on her ID, albeit with a little resistance because they were unaware of the program and law.

The receptionist accepted this and my girlfriend's $10 for a replacement card. The receptionist said if there was any issue, they would call her. So a week later they did. She spoke with a "Jeff Parks", who told her they would not put a PO box address on a permit card because they won't mail a permit to a PO box. My girlfriend offered to pick it up in person, he declined. She reluctantly offered to disclose her real physical address if it would be kept confidential, but only if she would receive a permit with her designated "false" address, he declined.

She offered to write the Sheriff a letter explaining the circumstances,but then he started getting irritated. She offered to have someone at Safe at Home call him and explain how/why he must accept the designated address. Jeff Parks started to get angry and used foul language to say, "I shouldn't have to a waste another !@#$%^& day dealing with this !@#$".

My girlfriend asked what would happen if she just didn't get a replacement card, since she has no legal obligation to do so. Jeff Parks told her, "Good luck dealing with that! We'll see you in court if you want to cause problems!". She called me in tears at work because she was so upset that she had been treated this way. I don't know what I should do about this. I plan on moving into a place with my girlfriend eventually and I will have to enroll in the Safe at Home program as well, so I will have to deal with this myself. Any help/suggestions?

Call Marc Berris or David Gross, or, more to the point: have her call either of them. If you need a number, let me know.

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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:34 pm 
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yangsta wrote:
Traveler wrote:
I believe that Joel might have a phone number or two of attorney's that specialize in denied permits. I suspect that this would fall under that umbrella.

Send him a PM, or most likely he has already contacted you, as he monitors the board fairly closely.



I was going to say the same thing.. being that I'm a noobie, I've been reading a lot on here.
:) This is a very good thing to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:46 pm 
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any updates on this?

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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:09 am
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Location: Anoka, MN
Sorry guys, got caught up at work and stuff. So before I had a free moment to contact one of the fine attorneys Joel suggested, this Jeff Parks character decided on friday to call the Safe at Home program as my girlfriend politely suggested he do to clear things up. The conversation was relayed to my girlfriend from her contact worker at the Safe at Home Program.

He initially refused to accept the designated address again, even after the fact was explained to him by a contact worker. She then mentioned that she could just give his county attorney a call to straighten this out, to which he declined and said that won't be necessary. He finally caved and said he would make this one exception. He told her that he would comply and put the false address on the permit card as requested, but with the caveat of my girlfriend needing to provide her real physical address for their records.

Just to note, the contact worker did not provide that information, nor did she have the authority to. My girlfriend was told after this that Jeff parks said she could expect her permit in a few days, and that was that. So......the permit came today, with the correct false designated address, as if there had been no conflict about this matter. Jeff Parks has yet to receive any true physical address from us, as he mentioned would be required for him to send that permit as requested.

So far I have learned:

* The Sheriff's Office will mail a permit to a PO box.
* The Sheriff's Office will comply with state law when pressured.
* The Sheriff's Office cannot justify needing your physical address.
* All government will take everything if you give it to them.

I consider this a win and look forward to my permit change of address. Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Well done -- but be sure to praise the lawyer by name.

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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Location: Anoka, MN
But Joel, there was no lawyer involved . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:01 am 
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madrevar wrote:
But Joel, there was no lawyer involved . . .
My bad. I fleeped part of a sentence. Been kind of a long day.

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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:09 am
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Location: Anoka, MN
No problem buddy, it is kinda late huh? Well I'm just glad I didn't have to invoke counsel in this case, but we will see what happens when my turn comes . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:45 am 
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Sorry I'm late to the thread., but Safe At Home address issues DO NOT need a lawyer involved. The program will go to bat against any entity, private or public, that doesn't quite get their obligations under the address confidentiality program. They have the legal resources at the state level to do this and take their charter seriously. A call to Dianna Stair, the program administrator, or for that matter any of their other staff, and they'll take care of you (obviously if you're already in the program).

We went through the same thing with Dakota County a while back. At first the deputy Sheriff claimed their system couldn't accept a PO Box..."nope it can't accept it, it requires a street address." Right after Dianna talked to him, their system magically could accept the PO box based address. Who'd have thunk? It did take several weeks after that to get the new card sent to us. BTW, that deputy was recently appointed Sheriff after Gudmundson stepped down and is and running for reelection this Fall.


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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:47 am 
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Cool. (For those who don't know, Ree knows whereof he speaks, when he speaks on a subject.)

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 Post subject: Re: Anoka County Refusing to Replace Permit Card
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:02 am 
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madrevar wrote:
...She then mentioned that she could just give his county attorney a call to straighten this out, to which he declined and said that won't be necessary. He finally caved and said he would make this one exception. ...

And he will make another exception next time a SAH participant gets or updates a permit...if he's still in charge at the time.

I understand his reluctance to update the card to a PO box. But the being a dick about it and lying about unbreakable policies irks me. As does the use of the phrase "false address." It is not a false address (from the FAQ):

SAH wrote:
Q: Who must accept the Safe at Home address?
A: All public and private entities in the state of Minnesota must accept a participant's assigned Safe at Home address (PO Box) as the participant's actual address of residence and employment. This requirement is mandated by Minnesota Statutes, chapter 5B.

Q: Does Safe at Home assign participants a fake address?
A: No. The address assigned to Safe at Home participants is a real mailing address.


The sad thing is that before this program got created, victims of stalkers/abusers had to fight these battles alone. It was and still is possible to get a PO Box address on your state ID without being in Safe At Home, but you did/will constantly have issues when dealing with various entities...especially government ones. One would think that a law enforcement professional might listen to a stalking victim's background and try to accommodate them out of pure human empathy. But they probably see so much bad crap that they're effectively programmed to think that anyone who wants to use a "false address" is up to no good. And getting them to make an exception to this mindset requires them to invest a fair amount of time to listen to one victim's story. Rather than do that, they just say "no," knowing that they're probably at the top of the authority totem pole and your average Joe(sephine) will be unable to make them be inconvenienced.

Hence SAH. They're a little higher on the totem pole these days.


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