Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive
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Safety Use
http://ellegon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=492		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  W0THK [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Safety Use
I'm curious about how permit holders use safeties. The would apply primarily to those carrying automatics. Does your gun have a safety, and if so, do you use it engaged while carrying?

Comments?

TomK
Mpls, MN
Author:  Pakrat [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
My CZ 75 D Compact doesn't have a safety.

Friend of mine has a Bersa 9mm. He started by using the safety, but reading opinions on reaction time and such, he will only use the safety as a decocker and a safe way to holster now.
Author:  DonL [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Glock. In the holster, triggerguard covered, no problem. Out of the holster, triggerfinger along the frame, again no problem. This topic is the most frequest one i get questions on in my class: Safetyon/off, safety or no safety is choosing a "carry gun", and then, "do you carry a round in the chamber? I answer with: "it's a personal choice, depending on your preference, and comfort level".
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
My Taurus PT11 Millenium Pro has a very long, heavy double-action-only trigger, a frame safety, an integral key lock, and a loaded chamber indicator.

I think beyond the trigger, the rest of the devices are more about liability and politics than actual safety, and I don't advocate any of them.

Of course, a single-action model like a 1911 should always be carried with the frame safety engaged.
Author:  BB Guns [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
When I carry my Glock(s) it's just in the holster. When I carry my 1911's, SAFTY is ON!
Author:  squib_joe [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sig P-220. No safety beyond what's between my ears :shock:
Author:  JDR [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
My current carry is a Kimber Ultra Tactical, with a 1911 style safety. Since I carry it with “one in the pipe” and the hammer cocked, I keep the safety on all the time (Unless drawing the weapon of course).
Author:  mobocracy [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Massad Ayoob's column in the Sep-Oct "American Handgunner" makes the point that a safety-enabled gun takes much longer to be used against you by an attacker but adds a trivial amount of time (1/10 of a second in his test using a Cominolli-equipped Glock 17 and one without) to actually using your weapon.

I've actually toyed with the idea of having the Cominolli safety added to my Glock 29, since the only other "safety" is not chambering a round and I think that's going a little too far for most (but not all) carry purposes.

When pheasant hunting in October, we carried our guns in the field with rounds in the chamber but the safeties on. My 11-87 has the safety mounted in a place where I pretty much have to activate it with my trigger finger and then put my trigger finger on the trigger and fire. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy this was to do despite having little practice at it -- I shot 3-4 rounds of skeet a week, but because you only load up when its your turn to shoot, I never use or practice turning the safety on and off.

I think that a handgun safety is at least as easy to operate, especially considering that most can be operated with the thumb of the shooting hand without a lot of changes to drawing and firing motions.
Author:  Srigs [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I use only DAO guns so point and shoot for carry purposes. Keep the fingers off the trigger and in a proper holster...
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Massad Ayoob's column in the Sep-Oct "American Handgunner" makes the point that a safety-enabled gun takes much longer to be used against you by an attacker but adds a trivial amount of time (1/10 of a second in his test using a Cominolli-equipped Glock 17 and one without) to actually using your weapon.


That might very well be true in calm tests at the range.

In the real world, if you forget to disengage the safety, it'll be longer than a tenth of a second!

The lesson: If you choose to carry a handgun with an "Extra" safety on it, you'd do best to ALWAYS shoot with it that way. Every magazine at the range, always. Sweeping that safety needs to be second nature, or sure as (not) shootin', you'll forget it under stress.

The whole issue of making the gun less usable to an assailant is much more applicable to uniformed police, who, running toward danger and carrying openly, face much greater dangers of a gun grab than your average carry permit holder like me, who carries concealed and plans to run away from danger like a scared jackrabbit.
Author:  mobocracy [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
The lesson: If you choose to carry a handgun with an "Extra" safety on it, you'd do best to ALWAYS shoot with it that way. Every magazine at the range, always. Sweeping that safety needs to be second nature, or sure as (not) shootin', you'll forget it under stress.


I mostly agree with this, but as I pointed out I NEVER use my ergonomically-disadvantaged shotgun safety for 97% of the shooting I do, yet managed to drop 90% of the birds that got up with a safety-engaged shotgun.

Sure, shooting pheasants isn't shooting people, but anyone who has hunted will tell you it's a very high-adrenaline moment when that bird gets up; I didn't miss a single bird because I forgot my safety or had a problem with it. I was actually amazed, personally.

But your point is well taken -- one should at least make a habit of practicing a draw where you disengage the safety.
Author:  Brewman [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:43 am ]
Post subject: 
My carry gun is an XD-40, which I carry ready to fire. This gun doesn't have an on/off type of saftey- it has passive safties. One is the grip saftey like 1911's have, and the other is the trigger saftey- a little lever that rides along side the trigger.

I also have a 1911 longslide target pistol that I don't carry because it's too bulky for me, but if I did carry it, it would be cocked and locked.

I don't have any automatic guns so I can't comment on the saftey use on those.
Author:  Dorian [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Safety question
I use an HK P7M8 as a carry, so the only active safety is a grip type that is very different from any other system I have seen. I can provide more info on it if needed. My BUG or summer shorts carry is a Kel-Tec P3AT it is a DAO with a very long, heavy trigger pull always in a holster that covers the trigger, for that matter so is my P7.

As far as using a safety, if the firearm is designed & comes equipped with one, it should be used; anything else is a training issue. Nor would I add an additional safety\s to a firearm not designed & equipped with it. I’m of the option that if you are not happy with the systems inherit in the firearm of your choice, then just choose a different firearm with the systems you want. There are so many different systems available from the different reputable manufactures that making major changes to the basic designed of a firearm is just asking for trouble.

However I do agree that an integral key lock and a loaded chamber indicator are more about liability and politics than actual safety. While the loaded chamber indicator is a non issue for me as I always check anyway, the integral key locks that I read about cause me to shudder hence I don’t own them. The only gray area I can think of right off hand would be if a firearm came equipped with a DAO very long, heavy trigger pull & a frame type safety.

Sorry did not mean to get on my soap box,
Dorian
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safety question
Dorian wrote:
...

The only gray area I can think of right off hand would be if a firearm came equipped with a DAO very long, heavy trigger pull & a frame type safety.


Like my Taurus. Yup, you've got it exactly right.

Quote:
Sorry did not mean to get on my soap box


Unfettered opinionating is what we're all here for. Don't apologize! :)
Author:  Pat Cannon [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Quote:
The lesson: If you choose to carry a handgun with an "Extra" safety on it, you'd do best to ALWAYS shoot with it that way. Every magazine at the range, always. Sweeping that safety needs to be second nature, or sure as (not) shootin', you'll forget it under stress.


Yes! The main reason I shoot IDPA is so the gun is second nature to me. In early days I did indeed forget the manual safety a couple times, but no more.

In answer to the original question, I as a member of the Church of Jeff Cooper, carry a 1911 with loaded chamber, cocked hammer & manual thumb safety engaged. Between that and the grip safety it worries me not at all.

Having said that, I still will never hang it by the trigger guard from the coat hook of a bathroom stall!
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