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 Dakota County Fair report 
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 Post subject: Dakota County Fair report
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:42 pm 
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First, I want to say that this report is for informational purposes only. I have my reasons for carrying openly, and I don't want to open that debate here. I choose to carry openly because I can, and I want to let people know about the experience to further their knowledge base.

That being said, I went to the Dakota County Fair this morning. I walked around for 2+ hours, saw the exhibits, bought a hot dog, no problems at all. I even stopped at the Sheriff's office booth to see if "soft white guys" Gudmundson was there. He wasn't, but I talked to the deputies that were there, and they were very polite and friendly.

I had been there for quite a while, and was getting ready to leave, when I was approached by an older Dakota County deputy. He asked me if anyone had checked my carry permit today. I replied no, and he asked politely if he could. I said yes, and told him that my permit was in my left rear pocket and how did he want me to access it. ( I carry left-handed at 8:00). He replied, "Oh, no problem, just get it", so I did. He glanced at it, handed it back to me, and said "we had a lady that freaked out, so we had to check it out". He then said, "Would you mind terribly just putting your shirt over it while you're inside the fair, so we don't get a ton more calls? I realize you don't have to, so it would be a favor to me." I said sure, and did so. He thanked me, shook my hand, and told me to enjoy the rest of my day at the fair.

The deputy at all times was extremely polite and deferential, and asked me very nicely, so I accomodated him. This made all the difference to me, as I had a not so nice experience with a deputy in the Hastings courthouse last week, as detailed on packing.org. Overall, I had a pleasant time with no problems. (I don't consider being approached politely and nicely a problem.)

Doug


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 Post subject: Open Carry reasons
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:46 pm 
I'm curious about your reasons for carrying openly. I really don't want a debate, just interested in your point of view.

It sounds like the deputy handled it well and it was an overall good experience.

Again, I'm interested in your point of view, not looking to debate your reasons.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dakota County Fair report
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:22 pm 
reaver3 wrote:
...as I had a not so nice experience with a deputy in the Hastings courthouse last week, as detailed on packing.org.


I couldn't find that. Could you tell us what happened or post a link?


  
 
 Post subject: guest, here is my post from packing.org
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:57 pm 
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I had to attend court this morning at the Dakota County Courthouse in Hastings. I was there because our new neighbor is apparently a wife and girlfriend beater, and I was there as our neighborhood representative to see what was going on with this fellow. (He ended up pleading guilty.)

I disarmed in the parking lot, as required, but left my Bianchi Carry-Lok holster on, as it was a belt holster and I was too lazy to take my belt off and then on.

I walked into the courtroom and sat down near a Dakota County Deputy Sheriff who was apparently there for another criminal case. We made a little small talk about whether I was in the right room, etc. He then asked me "What is that leather thing on your belt". I replied that it was a holster. He said "For what?" Oh boy, I thought, and said for my pistol. He said, "You have a pistol on you now?". I replied, no, I left it in my car as the law requires (hence the empty holster, Sherlock). He then said, I hope no one steals it out of your car." I replied that it was in a locked box bolted to my car, and if someone stole my car there was nothing I could do about it anyway. He said, "It's a bad idea to leave it in the car." I said I did what the law required, and did he ever have to leave his pistol locked in his car when off duty. He said "no", and I said you never have to ever leave it locked up not on your person? He said "No". I then asked what he did when he had to go to places that post no guns, and he said "Those signs don't apply to me, because I'm LEO". I corrected him and told him that the no guns signs absolutely apply to him when off duty, because I helped to get the law passed. He then said, "Well, then I don't go to those places." (Which is it, they don't apply to you, or you don't go to those places.) I finally said, "Well, I'm a law-abiding citizen, and the bad guys in this room are not in some fantasyland, they are on the streets with me and my family and I will protect them as I see fit." He grumbled a little, but court began right then so thankfully the conversation was over.

Overhearing his conversations with the prosecutor, etc, he seemed to have a very arrogant attitude, so I don't think it was just me that gave him a bad day. I should have thought to get his name, but I didn't.

I guess I just wanted to let you guys know what happened, and that there is at least one Dakota County Sheriff that thinks he can do whatever he wants and that lowly peons like me should just shut up and keep moving.


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 Post subject: seanreagan
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:06 pm 
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Sean,

I actually have put a lot of thought into whether or not to carry openly. I decided to do it originally as a protest after Judge Finley overturned the first MPPA, to show my displeasure at the ruling. As time went on, I also decided to take the old saying to heart, that "rights are like muscles, if you don't use them they go away". I was concerned that if no one ever carried openly, that there would be a de facto ban on open carry as people would call the cops at the first sight of a weapon (shirt riding up, etc). I also thought I would be a source of education for curious people, and that has happened positively on a number of occasions. I am personally responsible for 3 people applying for their carry permit based on conversations with me about my open carry. I have never had a bad experience while open carrying, except for being hassled by a deputy for having an empty holster in the courthouse (see above). I am always polite, dress neatly, and use a retention holster while carrying so that I don't look "threatening". I wish that more people in Minnesota would, but each individual has to make that choice for themselves.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re: guest, here is my post from packing.org
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:50 pm 
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reaver3 wrote:
...I then asked what he did when he had to go to places that post no guns, and he said "Those signs don't apply to me, because I'm LEO". I corrected him and told him that the no guns signs absolutely apply to him when off duty, because I helped to get the law passed.


Actually, the 2005 revision of the law exempts off-duty law enforcement officers.

See the line labeled "12.14" on this page:

Quote:
12.13 (g) This subdivision does not apply to:
12.14 (1) an [strike "on-duty", insert "active licensed"] peace officer...


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 Post subject: Re: guest, here is my post from packing.org
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:11 pm 
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Matt Payne wrote:
reaver3 wrote:
...I then asked what he did when he had to go to places that post no guns, and he said "Those signs don't apply to me, because I'm LEO". I corrected him and told him that the no guns signs absolutely apply to him when off duty, because I helped to get the law passed.


Actually, the 2005 revision of the law exempts off-duty law enforcement officers.

See the line labeled "12.14" on this page:

Quote:
12.13 (g) This subdivision does not apply to:
12.14 (1) an [strike "on-duty", insert "active licensed"] peace officer...


Yup. That was part of the price of getting the Sheriffs Association to "support" the MCPPA2 by sitting on their hands and not opposing the MCPPA2.

All in all, I'm beginning to think that the deal with the Sheriffs Association may not have been as good as it ought to have been.


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 Post subject: Re: seanreagan
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:45 am 
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reaver3 wrote:
Sean,

I actually have put a lot of thought into whether or not to carry openly. Doug


Thanks for the insight. I have had similat thoughts, but right now I'm still messing around with different combinations (gun/holster) before I'm comfy enough to do an open carry. I still don't think I'll do it often, but there are a few particular place I go that I would not mind carrying openly.

I have had 1 similar experience with a soon to be permit holder. I was at a friend's BBQ, and the subject came up. A conversation arose on the mechanics of carry and how they thought it was impossible to do without being seen. Well I walked over and added to the conversation "Hey I'm carrying", they gave me a puzzled look, I had on a tight t shirt and some cargo shorts. WHERE? was the question after they stared at me a bit. It was a surprise to them all because I have not told many people I know at all that I carry. I like it that way. I did have a little advantage, at the time I was carrying my Kel-Tec P3AT .380 (small as heck) and it compares in size and profile to a billfold.

Thankfully I had Joel as an instructor and have followed the passage of the 1st and the 2nd law, and I had many talking points to offer all. (THANKS JOEL!) You are correct, they key is to be polite, tactful, and not treat it like a novelty. I explained my reasons for carry, and everyone was ok with it. One guy that was there (friend of a friend) talked with me for about 30 mins, and he is now on his way to getting the permit.

2 guys wanted to "See the gun", like hold it to which my reply was "not here" because there were kids present and it simply was not appropriate. Later I ended up going inside and showing the 2 guys the Kel-Tec (unloaded of course), they were intrigued by the size of it.

I was a bit nervous because it was really my first time "throwing myself to the dogs" hahaha in regards to carrying. Not as bad as I thought.

Sean


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 Post subject: you'll soon see...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:47 pm 
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that it is no big deal at all. Most people are so wrapped up in their lives and what to cook for dinner that they never notice. As long as I am carrying legally I don't worry about it, at worst someone can ask me to leave, and that has never happened.

Doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:16 am 
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From the stories I've heard thus far, open carry doesn't seem to garner as much attention as I personally thought it might. That said, I usually carry concealed, mostly as an appeasement to SWMBO, who'd rather I didn't carry at all when she's with me (That's another story. I'm trying to get her to the range).
To those of you who choose to carry openly- more power to you. It's allowed by law for permit holders to do so, and that should be all the reason you give as to why.
At least we have the choice. Some states deny open carry, and you can even get popped for imprinting, or whatever it's called when your gun becomes visible thru your clothes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:02 am 
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I work as a security consultant (I also work in Corrections as a "day job.") Normally, I carry concealed, but I occasionally will open carry on job sites when consulting. I do this mainly for the benefit of my clients who take comfort in knowing I am armed.

When I choose to open carry, I only do it with a holster which has some sort of retention device (thumbreak at a minimum). I always make sure my consultant ID and badge are visible as well, and I've found nobody gives me a second look.

I did lose a contract in Mpls because of carrying. I was working in their security office, and since it was hot, I took off my jacket. One of their officers asked me, "Why are you carrying?" I politely explained I had a permit, and that I carried because of threats I recieved working in Corrections. While nothing more was said on that day, when MPPA was passed the business immediately posted their entire campus. I have not been able to renew contracts with them since.

They didn't pay that well anyway.


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