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 Armed citizen takes out tires as shoplifters flee 
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 Post subject: Armed citizen takes out tires as shoplifters flee
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:30 pm 
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http://www.azle-news.com/news/get-news.asp?id=9779&catid=1&cpg=get-news.asp

From the story:
Quote:
The fleeing driver seemed to be headed straight for the citizen, who fired at the vehicle, striking a front tire.

Another citizen called 911 and reported “an undercover officer shooting at someone who tried to run him down,” Myers said.

That “undercover officer”, it was later discovered, was the armed citizen, Myers said. Both the caller and the “shooter” remained unidentified by police in the interest of their safety.


And again:

Quote:
The chief has mixed feelings about the help officers received from an armed citizen.

“Our concern in a situation like that is the number of people in the immediate vicinity of an individual who don’t have a way to know who or what he is,” Myers said.

“A uniformed officer is easily identifiable. But the public doesn’t know who (a citizen with a handgun) is, or how to help.”

On the other hand, this particular citizen did choose the most restrained use of his weapon, firing only at the tires of the vehicle and ultimately helping catch a car full of suspects.

Moby's words: I really appreciated the last paragraph, from the author no less, to contridict the concerns of the chief.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:40 pm 
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Kinda makes me think the chief is on some heavy meds. Somehow, an officer has more of a right to self defense against being squashed by a 2500 or so lb vehicle, er, if someone is shooting in self defense, bystanders should react differently? I dunno, sounds like bystanders did their job, verified that the citizen was in danger of being run down and reacted with potentially deadly although poorly aimed appropriate deadly force.

We can debate the smarts of chasing suspects in your personal vehicle, but the stuff the chief seems to be complaining about seems. . . . . :roll: . . . . well, I wonder if that dept has any missing evidence :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:35 pm 
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I cringe...putting oneself in immediate death or great bodily harm to catch a shoplifter? No thanks.

I certainly feel moral outrage when such a crime takes place, but I also have a duty to my family to come home at the end of the day. If I wanted to risk my life apprehending property criminals, I'd go back to police work.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:09 pm 
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I dunno, I read the article more as the citizen was leaving the store wheaties and milk in hand headed for his vehicle or headed into the store for milk and wheaties when he saw a car charging at him as if intent to run him down. . . He reacted against a percieved threat of great bodily harm or death. I don't see him getting into questionably (and I am not leaning one way or the other) vigalante flavored behavior until he gets into his truck and chases. Up to that point, he is at the store for whatever he was doing there, anything from buying a pack of smokes to putting in a job ap, milk and wheaties, whatever, but he wasn't there to be a vigilante and wasn't being a vigilante when he fired on a car that witnesses say seemed to be trying to run him down.

I sure don't want to throw this guy under the bus for pulling the trigger, and for the moment I am reserving judgement on the giving chase thing. I do see those as two sepperate parts to the incident though.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:01 pm 
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This sounds like something I'd find posted over on a national "CCW" forum (coughDCcough), but there'd probably already be 80 or so posts by the armchair QBs over there, going on about how they'd have blasted the 'BGs' and all that.

Sounds like what we have here is a genuine Carry Permit Commando....a Captain CCW! In this situation, all a person would really have to do in order to assist the police is get the license number of the getaway car. But this clown apparently placed himself in front of the moving vehicle, drew his gun, and began firing at the tires when it didn't stop...over $50 worth of shoplifted merchandise!

This is so wrong, on so many different levels, that I don't even know where to start.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:17 pm 
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peckerhead wrote:
This sounds like something I'd find posted over on a national "CCW" forum (coughDCcough), but there'd probably already be 80 or so posts by the armchair QBs over there, going on about how they'd have blasted the 'BGs' and all that.

Sounds like what we have here is a genuine Carry Permit Commando....a Captain CCW! In this situation, all a person would really have to do in order to assist the police is get the license number of the getaway car. But this clown apparently placed himself in front of the moving vehicle, drew his gun, and began firing at the tires when it didn't stop...over $50 worth of shoplifted merchandise!

This is so wrong, on so many different levels, that I don't even know where to start.


Not sure that he put himself in front of the car. He may have, but the article (at least my reading of it) didn't say that.

If he put himself in front of the car to block it, then it may be a different story. If the bad guy saw Joe Citizen taking down his plate number from a distance and tried to run him over, I'd call that a pretty clean DGU...

-Mark


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:35 pm 
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mrokern wrote:
peckerhead wrote:
This sounds like something I'd find posted over on a national "CCW" forum (coughDCcough), but there'd probably already be 80 or so posts by the armchair QBs over there, going on about how they'd have blasted the 'BGs' and all that.

Sounds like what we have here is a genuine Carry Permit Commando....a Captain CCW! In this situation, all a person would really have to do in order to assist the police is get the license number of the getaway car. But this clown apparently placed himself in front of the moving vehicle, drew his gun, and began firing at the tires when it didn't stop...over $50 worth of shoplifted merchandise!

This is so wrong, on so many different levels, that I don't even know where to start.


Not sure that he put himself in front of the car. He may have, but the article (at least my reading of it) didn't say that.

If he put himself in front of the car to block it, then it may be a different story. If the bad guy saw Joe Citizen taking down his plate number from a distance and tried to run him over, I'd call that a pretty clean DGU...

-Mark


Well it sounds like the permit holder is legally in the clear, by the way the piece was written, so he's probably good there.

But the thing is, you're a hell of a lot more maneuverable than a car, when you're on foot, and it'd take considerably less time to simply get out of the way of the car than it would to stop, draw, pick up the sights, and fire. Then there's the fact that flattening the tires of a moving vehicle won't actually stop it.

I would be willing to bet he placed himself in the path of the getaway car.

Also, there was the pursuit of the getaway vehicle by the permit holder in his pickup truck.

Yup....sounds like Captain CCW to the rescue!


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:43 pm 
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peckerhead wrote:
mrokern wrote:
peckerhead wrote:
This sounds like something I'd find posted over on a national "CCW" forum (coughDCcough), but there'd probably already be 80 or so posts by the armchair QBs over there, going on about how they'd have blasted the 'BGs' and all that.

Sounds like what we have here is a genuine Carry Permit Commando....a Captain CCW! In this situation, all a person would really have to do in order to assist the police is get the license number of the getaway car. But this clown apparently placed himself in front of the moving vehicle, drew his gun, and began firing at the tires when it didn't stop...over $50 worth of shoplifted merchandise!

This is so wrong, on so many different levels, that I don't even know where to start.


Not sure that he put himself in front of the car. He may have, but the article (at least my reading of it) didn't say that.

If he put himself in front of the car to block it, then it may be a different story. If the bad guy saw Joe Citizen taking down his plate number from a distance and tried to run him over, I'd call that a pretty clean DGU...

-Mark


Well it sounds like the permit holder is legally in the clear, by the way the piece was written, so he's probably good there.

But the thing is, you're a hell of a lot more maneuverable than a car, when you're on foot, and it'd take considerably less time to simply get out of the way of the car than it would to stop, draw, pick up the sights, and fire. Then there's the fact that flattening the tires of a moving vehicle won't actually stop it.

I would be willing to bet he placed himself in the path of the getaway car.

Also, there was the pursuit of the getaway vehicle by the permit holder in his pickup truck.

Yup....sounds like Captain CCW to the rescue!


Yeah, there seems to have been some junior g-man stuff here. Don't try this at home, folks! He's lucky it looks like it will work out in his favor.

-Mark


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:46 pm 
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It could also be read as people are sick and tired of criminals getting away with murder, and shoplifting. This guy decided to do something perfectly legal to stop said criminals. Who knows?

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:26 am 
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Quote:
They will be charged with robbery, a felony, instead of shoplifting, a misdemeanor, because the car was used as a deadly weapon in their escape, Myers said.


When I read this, it sounds like the authorites also thought that the "robbers" were racing towards the man.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:29 am 
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Regardless of the actual circumstances, the fact that the incident took place in Texas considerably reduces the shooter's chances of <s>persecution</s> prosecution.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:22 am 
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Recently someone was reading over my shoulder while I was reading this board in a coffee shop - she asked me, "What do you get out of reading that gun-lover site?"

My answer, "That I should keep my gun in my holster until me or someone I love is in immediate physical danger"

Personally I think Sparky has seen one-too-many cop shows

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