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 Carry question. 
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 Post subject: Re: Carry question.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:16 pm 
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joelr wrote:
Aquaholic wrote:
I have to admit... I laughed :lol: MY ass off!
Me, too.

ETA: I think I know what gets added to the next printing of the Supplement.

:oops: I'm glad I could help...I think

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 Post subject: Re: Carry question.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:19 pm 
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3Crowns wrote:
joelr wrote:
Aquaholic wrote:
I have to admit... I laughed :lol: MY ass off!
Me, too.

ETA: I think I know what gets added to the next printing of the Supplement.

:oops: I'm glad I could help...I think
I'm glad, fwiw. While I'm obviously of the opinion that what I do is better than penazitry (then again, what isn't?), I'm not of the opinion that it's impossible to improve.

So, honestly: thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:11 am 
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joelr wrote:
3Crowns wrote:
joelr wrote:
Aquaholic wrote:
I have to admit... I laughed :lol: MY ass off!
Me, too.

ETA: I think I know what gets added to the next printing of the Supplement.

:oops: I'm glad I could help...I think
I'm glad, fwiw. While I'm obviously of the opinion that what I do is better than penazitry (then again, what isn't?), I'm not of the opinion that it's impossible to improve.

So, honestly: thanks.


And that's how it should go down; with all the arguments lately (and for good reason) about the practices of some instructors, this is what should (in an ideal world) occur- student has question, instructor hasn't covered it, instructor finds out answer (if he didn't already know it) and adds it to supplemental materials for future classes.

Now if we could just convince some other folks this is the way to approach instruction...

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 Post subject: Re: Carry question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:31 am 
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It's easy to teach a snake to tapdance, once you manage to get the shoes on.

Working on the supplementary stuff. It's really not the "Indian Reservation Problem"; it's a subset of the "Dr. Seuss" problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:19 am 
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On Indian ground things can get a little dicey. While they are posted they don't always play by the same rules. They may ask you to leave, however they may also use their private LE to confinscate your handgun. Should they be successful you will need to go through tribal court to regain your property and good luck with that.

Their tribal courts are in many cases run by judges that are tribal members but who are not lawyers, they have no real grasp of the law or their jurisdiction. But becuase of the reseverations indepentant status MN state or local LE and courts will be very hesitant to assist unless asked to by the tribe.

I worked for a tribal organization for a few years and I can attest first hand to their ability to play both sides of soveriern nation game.


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 Post subject: Re: Carry question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:34 pm 
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mmcnx2 wrote:
On Indian ground things can get a little dicey. While they are posted they don't always play by the same rules. They may ask you to leave, however they may also use their private LE to confinscate your handgun. Should they be successful you will need to go through tribal court to regain your property and good luck with that.

Their tribal courts are in many cases run by judges that are tribal members but who are not lawyers, they have no real grasp of the law or their jurisdiction. But becuase of the reseverations indepentant status MN state or local LE and courts will be very hesitant to assist unless asked to by the tribe.

I worked for a tribal organization for a few years and I can attest first hand to their ability to play both sides of soveriern nation game.


Hence, I just have a policy of avoiding any 'tribal lands' for exactly that reason. They play the 'sovereign nation' card when it suits them...and the 'US-authorized private territory' when it suits them.


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 Post subject: Re: Carry question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Yup. The whole "tribal land" issue is a part of a bigger problem: how to deal with folks who don't obey the law, as it is, regardless of whether or not they think that they have to.

You can run into precisely the same problem attending a concert, a sporting event at the U, going to the Mall of America, or carrying openly, or doing any number of perfectly reasonable, appropriate, lawful things.

The simple solution -- which would be morally questionable, when it comes to violating unreasonable laws, and which would be morally wrong, when it comes to violating reasonable laws -- is "don't get caught." There's nothing at all immoral with conducting yourself so that somebody who intends to enforce a nonexistent law doesn't get the opportunity to inconvenience you.

How to handle the Mall of America's noncompliant posting (which they at least arguably don't have the right to do in the first place)? One perfectly reasonable answer is simple: carry discreetly, and don't get "caught." ("Caught" is in scare quotes because it's really not quite the right word, but it's the best I got.)

How to handle the State Fair's annoying and unlawful (see Minn. Stat. 624.714) signage? Just carry discreetly -- albeit not very discreetly -- and don't get "caught." (That's easy, in large part because there's, err, some reason to believe that the cops who work at the State Fair have been told to avoid "catching" you.)

How about when the folks running the rock concert at the Target center who, instead of putting up the legally-mandated signs, have everybody frisked? Easy: carry even more discreetly into the Target Center (Thunderwear being one obvious candidate) and don't get "caught."

The St. Paul Excel Center, when (not hypothetically) my wife asked me, as her birthday present, to take her to the Who concert? Easy: I carried, and didn't get "caught." I wasn't there to explain to some security guard or SPPD cop what the law is, or why it makes sense; I'm just not that into them in the first place, and I'd promised Felicia a concert, not another kind of amusement. So I just [deleted by JR -- I don't give all my secrets away]
, err, did something, and after we entered, I went to the bathroom and put one gun back on my hip where it belonged, and the other, still in its pocket holster, into my pocket. Sure, I could have decided that there was really little risk of being mugged between where we parked the car and the Excel Center, and back, and left the guns in the car -- and that wouldn't have been a bad choice, as it turns out; nobody tried to mug us, after all -- but I didn't care to. So I just was even a little more discreet than usual, until I got inside, and then was every bit as discreet as usual.

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