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 Justified shoot in OH, community backlash 
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 Post subject: Justified shoot in OH, community backlash
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:31 am 
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http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/04 ... un_co.html

Cleveland man caught up in gun debate
Quote:
Damon Wells is the man gun supporters imagined when they fought for the right to carry concealed weapons.

He had a permit to carry his gun, and he had the gun on him when a pair of teenage thieves approached him Saturday night on his front porch.

When one of the youths pulled a gun, Wells whipped out his and shot one of the boys multiple times in the chest, police said.

Arthur Buford, 15, died after stumbling away and collapsing on a sidewalk near East 134th Street and Kinsman Road.

City prosecutors decided Monday that Wells, 25, was justified and would not be charged for what appears to be the first time a concealed-carry permit holder has shot and killed an attacker.

Nonetheless, the shooting reignited the debate that roared three years ago when Ohio's concealed-carry law took effect.

Gun supporters said the weapon saved Wells' life. Opponents said it took Buford's - that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed.

An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday and set up a memorial at the intersection where Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School, died.

His cousin, Tameka Foster, 21, questioned why police refused to punish Buford's shooter. "They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead."

Buford's accomplice disappeared after the shooting and had not been caught Monday night. Police found a .38-caliber handgun in the mail chute of a nearby house. They believe it belonged to Buford or the other suspect, Lt. Thomas Stacho said.

Police took a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson firearm from Wells, the police report shows.

Both sides of the gun debate said it was sad that a teenager died.

"It's tragic," said Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearm Association. "Anytime somebody dies it's tragic, but it's hard to have any sympathy when he chose to have a gun and go threaten somebody's life."

Irvine said it was "great that a potential victim is able to continue his life instead of having a criminal take it."

Toby Hoover, of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving a concealed-carry permit holder.

"This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said.

But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."

A man who answered phone a number for Wells refused to comment and hung up. No one answered the door at Wells' home.


http://www.cleveland.com/crime/plaindea ... thispage=1

Quote:
2 teens blocked him: 'Don't move or I'll pop you'
Friday, April 27, 2007
Gabriel Baird
Plain Dealer Reporter

Damon Wells will not go home. He is a pariah in his neighborhood.

The 25-year-old Cleveland man shot one of the two teens trying to rob him at gunpoint on Saturday in front of his home. The youth he killed, Arthur "Ace Boogie" Buford, was 15.

Since the shooting, windows in Wells' home have been shattered and are boarded up. Many in the Mount Pleasant neighborhood have sided with Buford and his accomplice rather than with Wells. Two people close to Wells want to defend him publicly, but they will speak only on the condition of anonymity because of rumors of retaliation.

They say Wells is in hiding now, leaning on his family and his faith in God. He is struggling with grief for the boy's family and frustration with how the community turned on him.

The trouble began about 8:30 p.m. Saturday with a trip to the corner store less than a block away, but even that can be dangerous in this Mount Pleasant neighborhood just north of Kinsman Road. Last year, one out of 100 residents in the blocks around his home on East 134th Street north of Kinsman Road was robbed or seriously assaulted, according to a Plain Dealer analysis of police data.

Wells was prepared. He wore a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson pistol in a shoulder holster. It is unclear if a shirt or jacket hid the holster. That day temperatures rose to 68 degrees.

It is also not known what, if anything, Wells bought at the store. He has declined to comment, and police have been guarded in the details they have released.

On the way home, Wells saw two teens. One was Buford, who was on probation for a 2006 robbery. He was wearing black sneakers, RocaWear jean shorts and a baggy white T-shirt.

The two teens approached Wells - one went in front of Wells, the other behind. He told police he felt threatened.

Contrary to previous reports, Wells did not get to his porch. Police say he reached the porch steps, but before he could climb them and run inside to safety, one of the youths - it is not clear which - pulled a handgun and said, "Don't move or I'll pop you."

Wells put up his hands.

The second youth reached for his pants, and Wells later told police he believed the robber was reaching for a second gun. Wells quickly drew his handgun and fired three shots. One hit Buford in the chest.

Both boys ran, but Buford bled profusely. He didn't get 15 yards before he tumbled onto the sidewalk not far from the corner store.

A surveillance camera from a building across Kinsman was pointed toward Wells' home. Police have not released the tape, but they said the image quality was poor. It could not have captured a shooting in front of Wells' home.

A crowd began to gather around Buford. Emergency workers rushed him to MetroHealth Medical Center. He was pronounced dead at 9:18 p.m., about 30 minutes after the shooting. Back at home, Wells went inside and put down his gun.

A woman in the house and several frantic neighbors called police. When they pulled up outside, Wells was there, hands in the air. He told them the gun was inside.

Investigators found three shell casings and blood. On Kinsman Road, they found a handgun that they believe was used in the attempted robbery.

They took Wells to jail. He answered their questions and, after consulting with city prosecutors, police released him. Police said all the evidence suggested he had done nothing more than what he had to do.

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

gbaird@plaind.com, 216-999-4141


Last edited by DaveA on Wed May 02, 2007 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Justified shoot in OH, community backlash
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:58 am 
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25 is "an old man"?

wildhunter wrote:
Evidently one young criminal is worth more than one old man in the community of Cleaveland. Lucky for him that Ohio law protects him from a wrongful death civil suit in a justified shoot or he'd be screwed.


http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/04 ... un_co.html

Cleveland man caught up in gun debate
Quote:
Damon Wells is the man gun supporters imagined when they fought for the right to carry concealed weapons.

He had a permit to carry his gun, and he had the gun on him when a pair of teenage thieves approached him Saturday night on his front porch.

When one of the youths pulled a gun, Wells whipped out his and shot one of the boys multiple times in the chest, police said.

Arthur Buford, 15, died after stumbling away and collapsing on a sidewalk near East 134th Street and Kinsman Road.

City prosecutors decided Monday that Wells, 25, was justified and would not be charged for what appears to be the first time a concealed-carry permit holder has shot and killed an attacker.
: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:03 am 
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There must be more details that weren't released or known. Or, Cleveland is more messed up than I imagined. I guess they don't call it "the mistake on the lake" for nothing.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:08 am 
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nyffman wrote:
There must be more details that weren't released or known. Or, Cleveland is more messed up than I imagined. I guess they don't call it "the mistake on the lake" for nothing.


it's the "victim mentality" again. the perp (kid) and victim(chl holder) both live in close proximity in a neighborhood that is not the best. The neighbors can see themselves in the perps shoes and are scared. the perp's family is in denial and transferring responsibility and blame.

Tragic!


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:43 am 
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Quote:
"victim mentality"


I disagree somewhat, it is the lawless, gang/tribe mentality that is prevalent in the intercity neighborhoods........The same thing is going on here almost daily.

I do not blame Wells for going into hiding, as the LEO's have disarmed him as his 40 cal is and will be in police retention for an indeterminate period....and now the bangers have $ on his head................... :x

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:54 am 
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pblark wrote:
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it's the "victim mentality" again. the perp (kid) and victim(chl holder) both live in close proximity in a neighborhood that is not the best. The neighbors can see themselves in the perps shoes and are scared. the perp's family is in denial and transferring responsibility and blame.

yeah, I can agree with that and Cleveland is the mess I think it is. when the locals side with Arthur Buford over Damon Wells. Wells will probably not ever be accepted in that community and have to leave town. Which leaves the neighborhood with one less good guy and one less bad guy in this case, but long term, the downward spiral continues.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:23 am 
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Some good can come out of situations like this.

Maybe the other "Ace Boogie's" out there will think twice when they decide to rob someone. These gang-bangers need to realize the the people they try to victimize just might be equally, or even more, dangerous than they are. If this kid would've known or assumed that Mr. Wells was armed, this probably would not have happened.

Same thing with what happened yesterday at Legends Bar & Grill. Bad guys might think twice now when they decide it's a good idea to go into a public place with thoughts of easy money and an unarmed public.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 11:18 am 
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nyffman wrote:
There must be more details that weren't released or known. Or, Cleveland is more messed up than I imagined. I guess they don't call it "the mistake on the lake" for nothing.


To put it in terms of the Wolves, Sheep, and Sheepdog essay...

Remember, many of these "youths" do not think the same way as you or I do. They are upset because one of their "sheep" turned out not to be so sheepish. Now, one of their "pack" is dead. Even worse, one of the "sheep" resisted successfully, weakening the power of intimidation. They now have to threaten and intimidate, in order to regain the authority they acquired through fear. They don't want other "sheep" to get ideas.

Think about the movie, "A Bug's Life." There the grasshoppers kept things to their liking by intimidating the ants. As long as the ants didn't get any ideas or resist, the grasshoppers got what they wanted. When the ants realized they didn't have to do what they were told, the gig, for the grasshoppers, was up. Cleveland is the same story, different location.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:23 pm 
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Quote:
Toby Hoover, of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving a concealed-carry permit holder.

"This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said.


Obviously Ms. Hoover thinks John Lott and Gary Kleck are big fat liars.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:10 pm 
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Glad he stopped the deadly attack. I'm sad that punks are vandalizing his home and his neighbors are not protecting his home by taking pictures and calling the police. :evil:

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:37 pm 
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Let me fix that for you.

ironbear wrote:
nyffman wrote:
There must be more details that weren't released or known. Or, Cleveland is more messed up than I imagined. I guess they don't call it "the mistake on the lake" for nothing.


To put it in terms of the Wolves, Sheep, and Sheepdog essay...

Remember, many of these "youths" do not think the same way as you or I do. They are upset because one of their "wolves" turned out not to be so good at eating sheep. Now, one of their "pack" is dead. Even worse, one of the "sheep" resisted successfully, weakening the power of intimidation. They now have to threaten and intimidate, in order to regain the authority they acquired through fear. They don't want other "sheep" to get ideas.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:37 pm 
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the author is a guy named Kevin O'brien, pretty middle of the road guy who it seems has had enough. He clearly wrote in the one article that the police response of "this is one time it worked out ok" was clearly false.

He also has posted about a off duty cop who shot some kid who was boosting car stereos from a parking lot, several miles from his home. Basically saying. "if you are the right place doing what you are supposed to be doing and someone from the wrong place, doing the wrong thing, threatens you, then the person who belongs gets a pass. (Meaning shooting is/should be ok!)

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 Post subject: Re: Justified shoot in OH, community backlash
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:31 am 
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Greg wrote:
25 is "an old man"?
: :lol:


I must have gotten the various shootings mixed up in my head when I posted that... :oops: 25 is closer to my age and while my bones may creak and I may feel old, be crotchety, and shake my head as the kids that speed down our residential road, I'm just a whippersnapper, especially compared to some of the other members around here (Tousi I'm looking at you..) :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Justified shoot in OH, community backlash
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Quote:
Gun supporters said the weapon saved Wells' life. Opponents said it took Buford's - that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed.


But a 25 year old, the real victim, would certainly have been dead.

Quote:
"This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said.


It's way more than a few, pull your head out and take the time to gather actual facts.

Quote:
But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."


Yep. Sounds like society will be better off without him, too.
He played with matches, and got burned. DUH.
Too bad, so sad, as my kids used to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Justified shoot in OH, community backlash
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:07 pm 
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wildhunter wrote:
Greg wrote:
25 is "an old man"?
: :lol:


I must have gotten the various shootings mixed up in my head when I posted that... :oops: 25 is closer to my age and while my bones may creak and I may feel old, be crotchety, and shake my head as the kids that speed down our residential road, I'm just a whippersnapper, especially compared to some of the other members around here (Tousi I'm looking at you..) :lol:



Hey................ :? I resemble that remark........... 8) :lol: :lol: :lol:

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