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 9mm/38Super reloading clarification 
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 Post subject: 9mm/38Super reloading clarification
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:11 pm 
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I was just looking at MidwayUSA website at jacketed round nose in .355 and .356. All .355 in weights 115gn and up are listed as 9mm. Only .356 147gn and up are listed as 38super. To confuse things further some weights of .356 are listed as 9mm.

My question, is there any adverse affect interchanging these. I was under the impression that the caliber was the same only the cartridge differed.

I have a 9mm and 38 super and have loaded the same bullets in both caliber cartridges for over a decade with never a problem. Looking at how they have them listed makes me wonder if I committed a careless oversight.

Any feedback greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: You're fine
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:07 pm 
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A mil's difference isn't going to make much difference. While it CAN with high power rifle loads like the .308 at 55,000 PSI, PO Ackley once proved how LITTLE difference it CAN make for pistol cartridges. He set up the ULTIMATE caliber mismatch by setting up a very perverted setup that allowed a 45 ACP to be chambered in a 30-06 action (they have the same case head and case body) and fired. The result?? A VERRRRYYY long 30 caliber bullet with lead sticking out the back of the jacket, and NO signs of excess pressure in the 45 case at all....

According to the data I have seen the bullet to use is .355" in a 38 Super, but you can find the same kind of duality in 44 Magum loading data. Some data specifies a .429" bullet, and the rest specifies a .430" bullet.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:55 am 
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If you want to be picky, slug both your 38sup and 9mm barrels; my money says they will be identical and closer to 356 than 355, when you mike the slugs.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

355 or 356 go well in 9s and 38stoopids in both Jacketed and linotype.
Personally I use linotype as it is cheaper and when I was serious about practice (1000+ rounds per week) it was the only financially viable way to go.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:12 pm 
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Whats a linotype? A quick google only yielded fonts...

I didn't think it made a difference as I've interchanged them for 10s of thousands of rounds. It just made me really apprehensive when I was looking at how they were labeled on midway usa.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:17 pm 
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Selurcspi wrote:
when I was serious about practice (1000+ rounds per week)


I thought I was serious when I was doing 400-500 a week.

1000/week is 142/day every day. Thats a lot of shooting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:54 pm 
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someone1980 wrote:
1000/week is 142/day every day.


It's more like 250-300 rounds every other night. You still need to clean the guns, reload, dry fire, work your day job and deal with the divorce. The world begins to look like a sight picture. I'm not sure it's healthy, but everyone should try it... for a while, anyway. Anyone that can keep it up, I'm more than happy to read about in the magazines or paper with sincere envy and awe.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:46 am 
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Inebrius,

Linotype is a lead, tin, antimony mixture used to make printing plates way back when. Hard cast lead bullets typically use the formula called #2.

CDL,

Practice was about 350 rounds 3 times a week in multiple calibers as I was shooting IPSC, PPC Service Pistol and Classic pistol & Revolver.
Cleaning, do it on the range while the gun is still hot, Reloading was about 4 hours a week, dry fire about an hour per non shooting day, Day job allowed time to run the Rod and Gun club range for the US Army in Germany and the divorce hasn't yet happened as the wife (ChinaKay) was and is shooting as well. Yes the world does look like it has a sight picture on it after a while.

Someone1980,

You've seen me shoot; does the practice show even though it was more than 10 years ago?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:27 pm 
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Selurcspi wrote:

Someone1980,

You've seen me shoot; does the practice show even though it was more than 10 years ago?


There are somethings that one never really forgets, just needs a little brushing up on. You still look like you know what you are doing (as opposed to some of us) but would be willing to bet that you could make that open gun really fly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:18 pm 
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Oh and I should note that you still go pretty darn fast. I remember who won the last man vs man. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:09 pm 
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Linotype is 84% lead, 4% tin, and 12% antimony. It's pretty hard, as bullet alloys go.

#2 is 90% lead, 5% tin and 5% antimony. The high tin content helps the liquid metal flow into molds, preventing voids.

Half-and-half lino/pure lead is about as hard as #2, but is only 2% tin, so a bullet caster has to exert more caution. However, this alloy was easily available, back in the days of linotype, and so was used a lot.

Wheelweight alloy runs about 95.5% lead, 0.5% tin, and 4% antimony, and so lacks some hardness, as well as fluidity when molten, but can often be gotten at a nominal cost, or free, and so is commonly used. The tin content is sometimes souped up with the addition of some 50/50 solder.

Heat-treating (i.e. sudden cooling) is also sometimes employed, to harden finished bullets.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:53 pm 
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Linotype machines were monsters and absolutely fascinating machines for converting typed letters into cast type bars which could then print column inches of paper. One or two skilled linotype operators could do more in a day than old fashioned type setters could do in a week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linotype_machine

my mom would run one when she was in high school working at my uncles print shop.

WHile out of use in many places, they are still used for wedding invites etc where you want a textured printing effect.

The linotype slugs were recast and recast as the time went on, but after a while the combinations of ink, paper, talc, and Kaol would build up and the printers would dispose of the linotype material, often giving it away for free for the hauling.

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 Post subject: A late response to an old post
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:40 pm 
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What is the caliber of .38 Super? It really depends on what is your goal ammo wise. I have shot most of my ammo in .38 S, all reloaded; and, when I still was actively shooting IPSC years back, I averaged some 70 – 80,000 rounds annually. That said, I do not profess to be an expert on .38 Super or reloading.

If you are reloading just for a serene trip to the range to get rid of some stress, I think following powder manufacturer’s data is sufficient. They are very careful not to exceed the SAAMI standards.

In case you are an IPSC (IDPA, etc.) shooter, the rules change. You are aiming at specific power factor (bullet weight x speed / 1000): 165 [used to be 175] - a 115-grain bullet must travel excess of 1435 feet per second.

In general, all shooters try to aim as close as possible to the limit, but numerous variables tend to make life difficult. As we all know, a reload, its pressure and speed (and accuracy, etc) derives from abundant factors, of which the bullet’s caliber is one. I’d bet that if you took two Bar-Sto barrels and two 1911’s and hand measured your reload components, the chronograph would prove the speed to vary from reload to reload.

As to the caliber, it is my experience that the proper caliber varies depending on your exact barrel. I have used anything from .354 to .357, lead and jacketed, and the only way to gauge your load is to shoot it through a chronograph if you do not happen to be Mr. Π (he can compute numbers in his head). I always gauged all match bullets and brass, hand measured the powder for each reload, and the cartridge overall length. What followed was several trips to the range to write down the chrono data, tweak the loads and back to the range. For the match I usually reloaded 500 rounds of which I again chronographed 50 and tested the accuracy of 100 rounds.

The other critical variables affecting velocity, pressure, accuracy, etc. are primer, powder, barrel (caliber/length), type of bullet, crimp, cartridge overall length, temperature, etc. The only real problem with too large or heavy bullets (or too much powder) is the pressure. The BANG might be louder than you expected, and you gun may require some repairs. The .38 Super is a high-pressure ammo for match purposes.

Without a chronograph it is all a guessing game.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:16 pm 
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IPSC .38 Super Loads http://www.k8nd.com/ipscload.htm

.38 Super reloading Aussie style http://www.ipsc.org.au/FAQ/Reloading/reloading.html

Wikipedia’s primer to .38 S http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Super


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:17 pm 
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BTW - Using 9x23 Win brass for my EAA 38 Super Match, I conducted an experiment by loading the brass with .355" bullets, .356" bullets, and .357" bullets and chronoed them. The result was that the .357 bullets ran a little faster than the .356 or .355, but not enough to indicate that anything disastrous was about to happen.

I would also like to post a WARNING about brass to use for 38 Super guns. The brass labeled "38 Super" still has that minimal rim on it that can screw up how the case sits in the chamber. The brass labeled 9mm Largo is rimless 9x23 brass, and can be used for 38 Super loads, but it is not the same as 38 Super brass or other 9 x 23 brass. Next is 9x23 Comp brass, and while people will swear it's the same as 9 x 23 Win, IT IS NOT!! 10 9x23 comp cases weight 41.7 grams. 10 9x23 Win cases weigh 50.9 grams. That's 25% more brass in the 9x23 Win cases. That means the internal volumes and strengths of those two cases HAS to be different. Caveat emptor!!!


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