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 EMP and a dial vernier 
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 Post subject: EMP and a dial vernier
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:08 pm 
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Is there anyone on this board that own a Springfield EMP and a dial vernier that could give me the bore size of the breech on their barrel. I was having problems with my slide not going to battery on some of my reloaded ammo.I read about some of the early guns having an issue with breeches on the low end of Sami specs. (whatever that means) so I didn't have an issue with sending it to Springfield to have them ream mine. When they shipped it back they put a note in with it to tell me that in addition to reaming the bore they polished the feed ramp and tuned the extractor.To make a long story short I occasionally find a round that won't drop all the way into the breech,being tight at the base of the shell. I took some of the tight rounds and my die to Gunstop to get John's opinion. After all was said and done he recommended I call RCBS ,which is what my dies are. They confirmed the fact that their die could be on the high side of the specs and my bore be on the low side. They requested I send in the die and some fired cases and they would see where we stand. They stated some cases tend to spring back more than others and this could be what we are seeing. This seems logical as it tends to be Fiocchi cases and sbs cases that are tight. The strange part is that not all the Fiocchi cases fail to go into battery. Thanks for any help.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:06 pm 
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.387


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:22 pm 
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Even with a "straight wall" cartridge like the 9mm, there is a slight taper to the case and the chamber.

My EMP measured 0.3875 at the beganning and 0.3810 as far in as my caliper would measure. The inside jaws on my digital caliper are 1/2 inch long.

I'm an engineer and have my calipers checked on a regular basis to comfirm their accuracy to the Bureau of Standards. A caliper is not the proper tool to measure to much less than about 0.002 inch on an ID. 3 point bore gages, air gages or such should be used.

These measurements would only give a rough measurement of the chamber. Specific gaging would be required to determine if the chamber is within tolerance.

I have a 14xx serial number. I purchase my EMP "barely" used within the last month.

Do you know of anyone that sells a flush fit magazine for the 9mm EMP. Not the magazines that came with the gun and stick out.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:14 pm 
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My reloads are are coming out of my die larger than the .387. I think this is the case and hopefully RCBS will come up with a tighter sizing die than I currently have.The leading edge of the chamber on my EMP is .389. As I stated I have had no problem with factory new ammo, it is just some of the reloads. If they say the die is fine I'll just have to test every round in the muzzle of this gun before using it as ammo for this piece. I have not had any issue with the same ammo that won't feed into this gun, I just feed it to the Glock and it eats it up.
Have you tried any reloaded ammo in your EMP?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:16 pm 
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hammer wrote:
.387

Hammer, thank you for your reply. Have you fired any reloads through your EMP?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:31 am 
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Maybe you could get a tight match tolerance case gauge?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:33 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
Maybe you could get a tight match tolerance case gauge?


I'm not certain what a tight match tolerance gage is but John at gunstop checked some cases that wouldn't go into my breech in a guage he had and they would go into that. This is how we determined mine must be at the low end of the accepted tolerance range. This was after it had been to Springfield.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:56 am 
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Try a Lee Factory Crimp Die? My SA Trophy Match Long Slide is chambered pretty tight, and I never have had a problem since I started using that die.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:10 am 
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Brewman wrote:
Try a Lee Factory Crimp Die? My SA Trophy Match Long Slide is chambered pretty tight, and I never have had a problem since I started using that die.


My issues are at the base of my rounds. I'm getting spring back with certain cases and the last 3/16 of an inch won't drop fully into the breech. This prevents it from going to battery when the gun is assembled.
I'm hoping I'll hear back from RCBS in the next couple of days.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:41 am 
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A case gauge is a gadget you drop your loaded rounds into to see if they will fit into your gun. Jon has them in stock. He should be able to order you one with match tolerances that might mimic the chamber tolerances of your gun.

You can also, as you have already discovered, just take the barrel out of your gun and try them that way.

The case gauge is a handy little gadget. I use one for 45 acp all the time. After running my rounds through the factory crimp die, I just drop them into the case gauge before I box them up.

Quote:
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/dies.cfm
Headspace/Case Length Gauges

Within the last few years, reloaders have become much more knowledgeable concerning some of the more technical aspects of handloading. This increased awareness has resulted in the widespread use of case gauges, run-out indicators, and headspace gauges. Headspace gauges have been available for decades, but have been little used by other than competitive shooters and those perfectionists dedicated to achieving the ultimate in accuracy.

Most of these gauges are essentially a chamber, cut for the particular cartridge being gauged. When a cartridge is inserted into the chamber, the case head will be flush with the base of the gauge. Cut into the base is a small step (normally .004" to .005"), which indicates correct headspace. If the case head is below the bottom step, it has excessive headspace; above the top step shows insufficient headspace. When the head is flush with, or between the two steps, the cartridge is correctly headspaced. If the rifle’s chamber is correctly cut within SAAMI specifications, this cartridge will fit the chamber properly. Many of these gauges also have another step cut into the case mouth end of the die, allowing it to double as a case length gauge.

Image
In use, a resized case or loaded cartridge is dropped into the chamber of the gauge, as shown in this photo. The head of the case should stop between the small steps cut into the base of the gauge, indicating correct headspace.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:04 am 
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Quote:
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/dies.cfm


Darn you DeanC! You again have made me aware of another excellent shooting web site to spend my time at.

One thing I did notice about the step gage shown. Normally the step will be 1/2 way through the diameter so one can feel if the case is above or below the maximum and minimun tolerance. It appears the step in the gage shown is way off to one side of the gage not allowing one to feel if the case is below the minimum tolerance, only if it would be below the maximum.

A case gage is part of reloading equipment needed if you use brass from guns other than the one you will fire the reloaded ammo in. (But still good in all cases.) Not too expensive.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:06 pm 
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I was also not aware such a thing existed till I stopped at Gunstop when I first ran into this problem. I couldn't see the sense in buying the one John had simply because the cases that went into his gage wouldn't all go into my breech so I would still have needed to check them there. If RCBS doesn't have a tighter die I may need to check into the tighter tolerance gage if John can find me one.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:45 pm 
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MNBud wrote:
If RCBS doesn't have a tighter die I may need to check into the tighter tolerance gage if John can find me one.


They are out there. My buddy has two for 45 acp. One is standard, the other match.

If you can't find one, maybe somebody can make one. It shouldn't that complex of a job.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:58 pm 
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How good is the support for the base of your cases in your chamber? Is the case fully supported or less fully supported? The cases could be stretching where there is poor support for the case.

I'm pretty sure I've also read that most sizing dies, even full-length, don't fully size the cases all the way to the base. Then there's the phenomenon (heard of but not seen in my reloading experience) of "over-sizing" where the brass kind of gets "pushed down" towards the base.

Evolution Gun Works makes undersize size dies .001 under the normal sizing dies. http://tinyurl.com/2k4svs. I haven't tried one, but I plan to get one for 10mm to see if the extra sizing allows me to shoot 135gr bullets without setback. My current Redding size die doesn't cut it for 135s.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:17 pm 
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This only tends to occur with certain casings.I get my brass at the range and alot of it has been fired from my Glock and as you stated it isn't fully supported and the EMP is. I believe that is where my issue is coming from. I believe the EMP is at the minimum of the specs.
I went to their website and may call them tomorrow,for $22.00 it may be worth a shot. Possibly I could send them some cases and see if their die can size them small enough and then I'll purchase it if they will fit the chamber.

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