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EMP and a dial vernier
http://ellegon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6491		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  DeanC [ Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:14 am ]
Post subject: 
I've got a couple brands of 45 acp sizing dies and I know for sure that they do not size all the way down. I haven't seen this cause a bulge in the web of the case, but I can see a color difference after sizing sometimes. I bet mobocracy has nailed the cause of your problem - the unsupported Glock chamber.

I'm no expert by any means, but in a rifle with this sort of problem, I have heard the use of small-base dies recommended. I have no idea if anyone makes a small base die for 45 acp. If not, that Evolution Gun Works die might do the trick.

The cheapest solution, I guess, is to take the barrel out of the gun and after you seat and/or taper crimp your rounds, drop them in the chamber and see if they fit and segregate them as needed.

The expensive solution probably requires having a gunsmith open up that chamber a skoosh.
Author:  mobocracy [ Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:01 am ]
Post subject: 
I might also add, maybe just buy a batch of new brass and stop using range pickups? I figure a case of brass isn't cheap, but the time wasted dealing with weird problems from range brass can be a nuisance, especially if it turns a trip to the range into a big frustration session.
Author:  JFettig [ Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have you gotten this fixed yet?
If you havent tried a LEE Factory Crimp Die, you should! I've run my reloads through an EMP without any problems. I also use range pickups or whatever I have. They might start with a bulge but don't have one after they go through the factory crimp die.

Jon
Author:  MNBud [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:02 am ]
Post subject: 
JFettig wrote:
Have you gotten this fixed yet?
If you havent tried a LEE Factory Crimp Die, you should! I've run my reloads through an EMP without any problems. I also use range pickups or whatever I have. They might start with a bulge but don't have one after they go through the factory crimp die.

Jon


All my problems are at the base of my shells, the crimping die only deals with the top end. They will get sized with your sizeing and de-capping die.
Author:  meltedeyes [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Gah, I'm such a geek. I saw EMP and thought Electro Magnetic Pulse and vernier and thought Peltier and then realized I'm on a gun community, not an electronics forum.
Author:  JFettig [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
MNBud wrote:
JFettig wrote:
Have you gotten this fixed yet?
If you havent tried a LEE Factory Crimp Die, you should! I've run my reloads through an EMP without any problems. I also use range pickups or whatever I have. They might start with a bulge but don't have one after they go through the factory crimp die.

Jon


All my problems are at the base of my shells, the crimping die only deals with the top end. They will get sized with your sizeing and de-capping die.


The LEE factory crimp die sizes the case again with a carbide insert it has and it does size very low on it. Its worth a shot.

Jon
Author:  MNBud [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have never heard this before,It will certainly be worth a trip to gunstop.
Thanks for the tip.
Author:  MNBud [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
JFettig wrote:
MNBud wrote:
JFettig wrote:
Have you gotten this fixed yet?
If you havent tried a LEE Factory Crimp Die, you should! I've run my reloads through an EMP without any problems. I also use range pickups or whatever I have. They might start with a bulge but don't have one after they go through the factory crimp die.

Jon


All my problems are at the base of my shells, the crimping die only deals with the top end. They will get sized with your sizeing and de-capping die.


The LEE factory crimp die sizes the case again with a carbide insert it has and it does size very low on it. Its worth a shot.

Jon


Thought I would post an update to this!! I just got a pretty good deal on a set of Lee carbide 9mm dies and as I believe JFettig was trying to say the SIZING die is tighter than the sizing die in my RCBS set. Every casing that I had set aside to be used in my Glock after resizing will now fit into the breach of the EMP.
Author:  JFettig [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
MNBud wrote:
JFettig wrote:
MNBud wrote:
JFettig wrote:
Have you gotten this fixed yet?
If you havent tried a LEE Factory Crimp Die, you should! I've run my reloads through an EMP without any problems. I also use range pickups or whatever I have. They might start with a bulge but don't have one after they go through the factory crimp die.

Jon


All my problems are at the base of my shells, the crimping die only deals with the top end. They will get sized with your sizeing and de-capping die.


The LEE factory crimp die sizes the case again with a carbide insert it has and it does size very low on it. Its worth a shot.

Jon


Thought I would post an update to this!! I just got a pretty good deal on a set of Lee carbide 9mm dies and as I believe JFettig was trying to say the SIZING die is tighter than the sizing die in my RCBS set. Every casing that I had set aside to be used in my Glock after resizing will now fit into the breach of the EMP.


Nope, factory crimp die:
Image

Did your set come with the factory crimp die? the 4 die set?
It is possible that the sizing die is tighter.

Jon
Author:  MNBud [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
No,mine are both the 3 die sets. I had never heard of sizing with the crimping die.
Author:  JFettig [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Take a look here:
http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalo ... crimp.html
I'm sure gunstop has them, I got mine from cabellas(4 die set), midwayusa etc all have them. If what you have is working good now you might not need it but I'd recommend it.

Jon
Author:  mobocracy [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
I used one for .223 rounds with a slight roll crimp, I figured it would be simpler to adjust but I didn't quite experience the excitement other people have about Lee FC dies versus just adjusting a normal crimp die.

Maybe its for people who have legitimate issues with adjusting the older seat-and-crimp combination die from 3 die sets.

I've never had a problem adjusting Dillon crimp only dies but I can see where a crimp-and-seat combo can be a nuisance to adjust perfectly for both operations.
Author:  westhope [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:57 am ]
Post subject: 
The advantage of the Lee Factory Crimp die is that it does two things.

1. It puts a more uniform taper crimp on the case. The design of the die is such that it is not as sensitive to overall length of the case as a standard bullet seating / crimping die is. You seat the bullet in the regular seating die with no crimp. You then run through the Lee Factory Crimp die for the taper crimp.

2. The Lee Factory Crimp die is also a resizing die. There is a carbide insert at the base of the die that resizes the round again after the bullet is crimped. This resizing die is also closer to the base than the die on the standard resizing die. I have found that it resizes the round closer to the base of the case than a standard resizing die. I have found that this little extra resizing is what is needed to fit in some guns. That is, those with fully supported chambers.

For those that may not understand a fully supported versus unsupported chamber:

For a round like 45 ACP the chamber does not support the brass near the base. If you remove the barrel of a standard 1911 and insert a 45 ACP round you will see that the brass is not supported by the chamber near the base. The feed ramp in the frame goes partially into the chamber and the chamber is tapered, at the 6 o'clock position, to feed better. Also, "throating" a chamber blends this taper out to the 3 and 9 o'clock position. For a low pressure round like the 45 ACP this is OK as long as the taper does not extend too far into the chamber. (The brass is thicker at the base of the 45 ACP case to also allow for this.) For a high pressure round like the 9 x 23, this is not OK. Depending upon how far the chamber is tapered at the entrance, it may allow some slight bulging of the brass. This is the slight bulging that may not be remove by a standard sizing die. A LFC die seems to be set a little closer to the base and removes this bulge. At least from my experience.

With a fully supported chamber, the feed ram is usuall part of the barrel and the chamber is full size out to the base of the round. This does not allow the case to bulge like with a supported chamber. But, if you take a partially resized case from an unsupported chamber, resize it with a standard resizing die, and try to shoot it a fully supported chamber (like my EMP) it will stick near the base.

For the $13 cost of the Lee Factory Crimp die, it is well worth it. (Also another reason to have those extra stations in a progressive press.)
Author:  DeanC [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:06 am ]
Post subject: 
The FC die also provides peace of mind when loading a round like 45 acp that headspaces off the mouth of the cartridge.
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