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 .38 spl load in .357 case 
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 Post subject: .38 spl load in .357 case
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:44 pm 
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What I would like to do it use .357 cases and build .38 special loads on them. My thinking is if I get .357 brass I can load them as either .357 or .38.

If I use a .38 or .38 +P load data in .357 brass, am I going to have a problem or is there anything I need to watch out for?


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 Post subject: Re: .38 spl load in .357 case
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:20 pm 
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someone1980 wrote:
What I would like to do it use .357 cases and build .38 special loads on them. My thinking is if I get .357 brass I can load them as either .357 or .38.

If I use a .38 or .38 +P load data in .357 brass, am I going to have a problem or is there anything I need to watch out for?


Are you looking for another gun to blow up :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
LOL

Yes you can, but only use slow burning high volume powders that will fill the case well. If you must use fast burning pewders, you can pack the case with rayon wool to keep the powder in place against the flash hole. Another alternative for you is to turn some brass inserts to return the internal dimensions of the case to 38sp or less and solder them in with liquid solder (dont forget to re-drill the flash hole).

I can't wait to hear the outcome of this one :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good Luck

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:45 pm 
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I have CRAP LOADS of .38spl+p brass if you'd like to trade. :idea:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Or do you want a photocopy of a page from a reloading manual that has light 357 loads?

The case volume is different so you can't just use 38 spl data for 357 cases.

For example: starting loads for an common but intentionally nameless powder with a 158gr cast lead bullet (no gas check)
38 spl 2.8 grains gives you 812 fps
357 3.2 grains give you 811 fps

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:09 pm 
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OK fine. I will invest in the remote firing mechanism (fishing line), and blast protect (steel plating), and just to be extra safe will break out the nut cup. For the record, I was *not* the dumbass that did not check the cases while making progressively more aggressive loads. I was just the dumb enough to want to be different. Make sure to ask for an update on what has happened in the last month to that particular XD.

From Alliant's web site it looks like Blue Dot is slowest at 37.8% the speed of their fast powder, and uses 7.3 gr for a .38 load.

Hodgdon H4227 is the 52nd fastest powder listed on their site and uses 9.0gr minimum load.

Any other powders I should consider?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:12 pm 
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mnglocker wrote:
I have CRAP LOADS of .38spl+p brass if you'd like to trade. :idea:


Don't have anything to trade at the moment. Looking to get into. Partly motivated by a certain steel match, partly by some of the other sports I participate in (IDPA).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:35 pm 
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someone1980 wrote:
For the record, I was *not* the dumbass that did not check the cases while making progressively more aggressive loads.

Hey, isn't that the same bonehead you caught stuffing rounds backwards into a 1911 magazine at Bill's a few years ago? :wink: :oops:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:16 pm 
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The S&W J frame 38's have exactly the same cylinder as the 357's. And even a 38 cartridge is pretty big, they designed it for black powder. The 357 has only a tiny bit more capacity, just enough to change the size.

So, with a 38, I've considered, naturally, pushing the limits a bit on some 38 +P handloads.

I don't really know if I can get any more velocity out of a 1 7/8 barrel. And I don't have data for snubbies.

Doe anyone know?

This probably belongs under "Stupid Gun Stuff", or maybe a new catagory of "Really Stupid Gun Stuff" but I'd bet it can be done.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:46 pm 
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I'm sure you could load some 38spl to be as fast as some 357 loads, but why would you want to beat up your gun and your hand just for practice loads?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:54 pm 
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The recoil doesn't bother me and the 38 snub is under powered, I think.

(My scientific test is to shoot out over a lake and see how far the bullets go.) That is probably better than reading some magazine article that somebody made up.

I didn't buy the 357 because the factory 357 ammo is apparently not really any faster in the snub, and the +P supposedly designed for 38 snubs is a actually slower when used in a 357 because of the larger cylinder. I don't know that for sure, I only have the 38.

We're not supposed to use reloads as carry ammo; but that's the next conventional wisdom I question. My reloaded ammo is always very good I think, and I trust it more than the commercial ammo. I really haven't done anything with 38's, I like my 44 and rifles to shoot for fun.

The people I've asked usually tell me to learn to carry an auto and forget about this short barrel stuff, but I'd like to mess around with the little revolver. Unique powder is listed for 38, 38+P and 357. I'm tempted to extrapolate. The only difference should be the smaller case.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:12 am 
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Dick Unger wrote:
(My scientific test is to shoot out over a lake and see how far the bullets go.) That is probably better than reading some magazine article that somebody made up.

Did Ozman take over your brain? The bullets can skip off the surface of the lake and go who knows how far. I wouldn't do that.

Dick Unger wrote:
and the +P supposedly designed for 38 snubs is a actually slower when used in a 357 because of the larger cylinder.

That is because the gap the bullet has to jump to get to the forcing cone is larger and you lose a lot of the gas pressure shooting 38's in a 357 cylinder.

Dick Unger wrote:
We're not supposed to use reloads as carry ammo; but that's the next conventional wisdom I question.

The only proven argument I've seen against carrying your reloads is that the forensic ballisticians might have trouble figuring out which rounds were really yours and how close you were to the target because they can't replicate your load formula.

Dick Unger wrote:
Unique powder is listed for 38, 38+P and 357. I'm tempted to extrapolate. The only difference should be the smaller case.

The thing is that pressure increases geometrically with increased loads. The smaller case will exacerbate that. A max load of Unique in 38+p with a 158gr cast bullet runs about 17,000 psi. Increase that load by 2 grains using a 357 case you are running about 34,000 psi. You just doubled the pressure of the load. Now put that load into a case that is about 12% smaller and that scares the hell out of me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:10 am 
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from a practical stand point, using a max 38 spl load in a .357 case will ALWAYS be safe. because the effect will be like dropping down to a starter .357 load.


From a case and load selection standpoint. I keep my cases separated for the idea of safety.

MY OWN WAY.....

Brass case .38's are safe in any gun, usually lower velocity target loads if loaded with a DEWC, or a plinker/small game load if loaded with a SWC.

Nickel case .38's +P's for strong guns only, or carry load in a J frame. Usually a 158 HPSWC or JHP.

brass case .357's hunting loads, either with JSP's or 165 0r 170 SWC hardcasts.

Nickel case .357's DGU rounds, Usually 125 or 130 grain JHP's.


This is MY system and it has worked for me, I use the same system with .44 special and .44 mag.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:28 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
Dick Unger wrote:
(My scientific test is to shoot out over a lake and see how far the bullets go.) That is probably better than reading some magazine article that somebody made up.

Did Ozman take over your brain? The bullets can skip off the surface of the lake and go who knows how far. I wouldn't do that.

They just skip a little farther and move a lot slower. It's all in the backstop. You need to have good elevation to see what happens with a rifle, and a couple miles of water. But the 38 has less than half the range of a 22, (which should not be underestimated.) You learn a lot by bending the water rules.

Dick Unger wrote:
and the +P supposedly designed for 38 snubs is a actually slower when used in a 357 because of the larger cylinder.

That is because the gap the bullet has to jump to get to the forcing cone is larger and you lose a lot of the gas pressure shooting 38's in a 357 cylinder.

Dick Unger wrote:
We're not supposed to use reloads as carry ammo; but that's the next conventional wisdom I question.

The only proven argument I've seen against carrying your reloads is that the forensic ballisticians might have trouble figuring out which rounds were really yours and how close you were to the target because they can't replicate your load formula.

Dick Unger wrote:
Unique powder is listed for 38, 38+P and 357. I'm tempted to extrapolate. The only difference should be the smaller case.

The thing is that pressure increases geometrically with increased loads. The smaller case will exacerbate that. A max load of Unique in 38+p with a 158gr cast bullet runs about 17,000 psi. Increase that load by 2 grains using a 357 case you are running about 34,000 psi. You just doubled the pressure of the load. Now put that load into a case that is about 12% smaller and that scares the hell out of me.


Well, I wouldn't jump 2 grains at once. And a snub will never be able to take advantage of a full 357 load anyway, I don't think. At some point it's just muzzle blast. But it is a little more scary to fool with a pistol than with a rifle.


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