Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive :: View topic - "Ramsey county bans firearms..."

bkrafft wrote:

The alternative to just ignoring their silly sign is sending the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners the following letter:

Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman.

bkrafft wrote:

Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman.

bkrafft wrote:

Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman.

Here's a shocker; I have received no reply whatsoever.

Quote:

Relax. It'll take their lawyers a while to read it over and find a way around it.

bensdad wrote:

bkrafft wrote:

Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman.

Here's a shocker; I have received no reply whatsoever.

Relax. It'll take their lawyers a while to read it over and find a way around it.

MNBud wrote:

I think, you stepping up to be a test case is very honorable , perhaps you could test the post office on your way home from the polls.

MNBud wrote:

I think, you stepping up to be a test case is very honorable , perhaps you could test the post office on your way home from the polls.

bkrafft wrote:

Okely dokely. It just <I>really</i> pisses me off that our civil rights are being disregarded like this. As far as I'm concerned, this is right up there with segregated drinking fountains and 'back of the bus' laws.

Quote:

Dear Mr. Krafft,

Thank you for contacting the Board about this issue. I appreciate your concern. The Ramsey County Attorney's Office has advised the Ramsey County Board that the ordinance prohibiting guns on County property is valid and enforceable. Locations where Ramsey County conducts the election are considered Ramsey County property during the election. As a result, prohibiting guns at those locations on election day is consistent with the ordinance. If you would like further information as to the basis for the County Attorney's opinion, you may contact Darwin Lookingbill, the Director of the Civil Division.

I appreciate your concern and appreciate your being in touch.

Sincerely,

Jan Parker

Quote:

The Ramsey County Attorney's Office has advised the Ramsey County Board that the ordinance prohibiting guns on County property is valid and enforceable.

Quote:

471.633 FIREARMS.
The legislature preempts all authority of a home rule charter or statutory city including a city
of the first class, county, town, municipal corporation, or other governmental subdivision, or any
of their instrumentalities, to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the
complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them except that:
(a) a governmental subdivision may regulate the discharge of firearms; and
(b) a governmental subdivision may adopt regulations identical to state law.
Local regulation inconsistent with this section is void.

Quote:

If you would like further information as to the basis for the County Attorney's opinion, you may contact Darwin Lookingbill, the Director of the Civil Division.

Quote:

Dear Mr. Lookingbill,

As you can see from my earlier correspondence (below) I am writing you concerning Ramsey County's belief that "the ordinance prohibiting guns on County property is valid and enforceable" when MN Statute 471.633 states:

"The legislature preempts all authority of a home rule charter or statutory city including a ... county ... to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them...."

and MN Statute 624.714 subd. 23 states:

"Exclusivity. This section sets forth the complete and exclusive criteria and procedures for the issuance of permits to carry and establishes their nature and scope. No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry."

County Commission Chair Parker said I should contact you for the basis of this opinion.

I thank-you in advance for your time and consideration in this matter.

Sincerely,

Bruce W. Krafft

Author:	mnglocker [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:23 am ]
Post subject:
bkrafft wrote: bkrafft wrote: The alternative to just ignoring their silly sign is sending the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners the following letter: Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman. :thumbsup:

Author:	bkrafft [ Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:
bkrafft wrote: Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman. Here's a shocker; I have received no reply whatsoever.

Author:	bensdad [ Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:
bkrafft wrote: bkrafft wrote: Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman. Here's a shocker; I have received no reply whatsoever. Relax. It'll take their lawyers a while to read it over and find a way around it.

Author:	colnagordr [ Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:56 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Relax. It'll take their lawyers a while to read it over and find a way around it. I'll second that. As a FORMER RC employee who took a carry issue up the chain and eventually to the CA Gaertner herself, it took me over 4 months to get a response that could have been answered in 2 minutes with the references I provided. In other words...don't hold your breath. To answer any questions, the answer was along the lines of what you would expect in Ramsey County.

Author:	bkrafft [ Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:
bensdad wrote: bkrafft wrote: bkrafft wrote: Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman. Here's a shocker; I have received no reply whatsoever. Relax. It'll take their lawyers a while to read it over and find a way around it. I was hoping to have a reply before the election. I am off work that day, so I will be able to carry to the polling place. I will defer to the judgement of others as to whether this would be productive, but I'm willing to be a test case.

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Author:	MNBud [ Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:
I think, you stepping up to be a test case is very honorable , perhaps you could test the post office on your way home from the polls.

Author:	SultanOfBrunei [ Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:
MNBud wrote: I think, you stepping up to be a test case is very honorable , perhaps you could test the post office on your way home from the polls. ...And do it all with a long-gun?

Author:	bkrafft [ Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:
MNBud wrote: I think, you stepping up to be a test case is very honorable , perhaps you could test the post office on your way home from the polls. Mmm, the only problem with that is that I work there, and they would fire me, so not until I hit a dekamega dollar powerball. When that happens I'm putting Joe, David and Joel on retainer for a few years . . .

Author:	kimberman [ Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:
No. None of this is productive. JimBob says "You all keep poking that snake and it's gonna strike." Remember that the 2009 Legislature will have veto proof DFL majorities in BOTH houses.

Author:	bkrafft [ Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:
Okely dokely. It just <I>really</i> pisses me off that our civil rights are being disregarded like this. As far as I'm concerned, this is right up there with segregated drinking fountains and 'back of the bus' laws.

Author:	Carbide Insert [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:12 am ]
Post subject:
bkrafft wrote: Okely dokely. It just <I>really</i> pisses me off that our civil rights are being disregarded like this. As far as I'm concerned, this is right up there with segregated drinking fountains and 'back of the bus' laws. +1

Author:	bkrafft [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Finally a reply: Quote: Dear Mr. Krafft, Thank you for contacting the Board about this issue. I appreciate your concern. The Ramsey County Attorney's Office has advised the Ramsey County Board that the ordinance prohibiting guns on County property is valid and enforceable. Locations where Ramsey County conducts the election are considered Ramsey County property during the election. As a result, prohibiting guns at those locations on election day is consistent with the ordinance. If you would like further information as to the basis for the County Attorney's opinion, you may contact Darwin Lookingbill, the Director of the Civil Division. I appreciate your concern and appreciate your being in touch. Sincerely, Jan Parker Opinions requested: Should I pursue this or just let this sleeping dog lie? Jan Parker is the Board Chair, representing Lauderdale, Little Canada, Mounds View (Precinct 4), New Brighton, Roseville, and St. Anthony.

Author:	Andrew Rothman [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:23 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: The Ramsey County Attorney's Office has advised the Ramsey County Board that the ordinance prohibiting guns on County property is valid and enforceable. Get better attorneys, Ramsey County. The legislature disagrees. Quote: 471.633 FIREARMS. The legislature preempts all authority of a home rule charter or statutory city including a city of the first class, county, town, municipal corporation, or other governmental subdivision, or any of their instrumentalities, to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them except that: (a) a governmental subdivision may regulate the discharge of firearms; and (b) a governmental subdivision may adopt regulations identical to state law. Local regulation inconsistent with this section is void.

Author:	kimberman [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:15 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: If you would like further information as to the basis for the County Attorney's opinion, you may contact Darwin Lookingbill, the Director of the Civil Division. Sure, ask for his reasoning in writing. We might as well lock them down. P. S. Susan Gertner is running for DFL nomination for Governor.

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Author:	bkrafft [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:
So here is the draft of my letter to Mr. Lookingbill: Quote: Dear Mr. Lookingbill, As you can see from my earlier correspondence (below) I am writing you concerning Ramsey County's belief that "the ordinance prohibiting guns on County property is valid and enforceable" when MN Statute 471.633 states: "The legislature preempts all authority of a home rule charter or statutory city including a ... county ... to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them...." and MN Statute 624.714 subd. 23 states: "Exclusivity. This section sets forth the complete and exclusive criteria and procedures for the issuance of permits to carry and establishes their nature and scope. No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry." County Commission Chair Parker said I should contact you for the basis of this opinion. I thank-you in advance for your time and consideration in this matter. Sincerely, Bruce W. Krafft Suggestions or comments?