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 "Ramsey county bans firearms..." 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:45 am 
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Every polling place I have been to has made you read an oath affirming your eligability before you sign the register.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:23 am 
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SultanOfBrunei wrote:
Every polling place I have been to has made you read an oath affirming your eligability before you sign the register.


Actually, I have never seen a sign like this at the polling place I go to in St. Paul. In this particular place, on Thursday morning, there were six people registering new voters and only two handling the pre-registration books and two handing out ballots.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:30 am 
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I respectfully suggest that sending letters to a county official who a) clearly doesn't care about the facts, b) has his mind made up, and c) enjoys local public support on this isn't going to help. Acting up will make matters worse, because there isn't any local public support for our side. A fair and balanced strib article about someone showing up at the polls with a BUG on his hip in (gasp!) direct violation of the signs and placards is going to help us .... how?

Minnesota gun law doesn't disallow the posting of specious notices that have no basis in law. The sheriff can post a prohibition against .25 ACP at the city limits and though such a sign will have no lawful effect there is no basis for legal action to have it removed.

Instead, this should be seen and addressed as the political stunt that it is.

There are federal and state statutes against electioneering. Gun control is an issue before the voting public. These signs are advocacy for gun control and serve no other practical purpose. There is a wide body of case law regarding electioneering and the courts have shown great willingness to overrule local officials.

So, let's see:
a) Signs erected to intimidate voters that have no actual legal effect
b) Immediately adjacent to the polling area
c) Visually designed to induce fear among some groups of voters (i.e. people who are scared of guns).
d) Purportedly addressing a problem that does not exist (I am unaware of any disruption of the polls by armed individuals at any time in Minnesota history)
e) Raising in voters' minds an issue that is, one way or another, part of the platform of the majority of candidates for public office

I don't know whether it's worth it or not but I would think that the courts would be far more sympathetic to this sort of reasoning than a hypothetical one about preemption and the authority of the local sheriff. I also think that it is more effective from a public relations standpoint to address the political effect of the signs than whether or not they actually restrict carry.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:46 pm 
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MostlyHarmless wrote:
Instead, this should be seen and addressed as the political stunt that it is.

...There is a wide body of case law regarding electioneering and the courts have shown great willingness to overrule local officials.


This, "my friends," is a great point and seems worth looking into.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:54 pm 
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Still no reply from Mr. Lookingbill; should I prod him about the ban on county property or let it be for the nonce?

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If the Government does not obey the Constitution, then what is Treason? -- Unknown


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:56 pm 
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bkrafft wrote:
Still no reply from Mr. Lookingbill; should I prod him about the ban on county property or let it be for the nonce?


He's never going to "voluntarily admit error.
His bosses like his conclusion. And they pay him well for it.
RC has $$$ to fight any lawsuit. After all, it's your money.

They do not care that they are "wrong."
They ARE politically correct as far as their voters are concerned.

Let it be.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:09 pm 
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kimberman wrote:
bkrafft wrote:
Still no reply from Mr. Lookingbill; should I prod him about the ban on county property or let it be for the nonce?
Let it be.

Okely-dokely.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:24 pm 
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bkrafft wrote:
I was reading the <a href=http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/cb/ordinances/Public%20Safety%20(gun)%20Ordinance%202003-214.pdf target=new>Ramsey County gun ordinance</a>[.pdf], and noticed Exception (3):
Quote:
persons who possess firearms, dangerous weapons, ammunition or explosives in a Ramsey County building or any space leased or controlled by Ramsey with the express consent of the Ramsey County Sheriff.

Since any permit holder voting in Ramsey county must live there, then his/her permit is issued by the sheriff, does that not constitute 'express consent'?
The alternative to just ignoring their silly sign is sending the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners the following letter:

Quote:
Dear Sir or Madam,

When I was voting in the primary on September 9, I noticed at both my old polling location and my new location signs to the effect of 'Ramsey County ordinance prohibits guns in these premises'.

Now even though Ramsey County is a "home rule" county, Chapter 383A is not a general grant of power to the county, but rather a series of discrete statutory provisions none of which covers firearms or a general legislative police power.

In addition, the Minnesota Legislature's preemption statute (471.633) specifically covers "home rule" counties when it says:

"The legislature preempts all authority of a home rule charter or statutory city including a ... county ... to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them...."

Now that you have been informed of these facts, may I assume that you will not be posting these unlawful signs, nor attempting to enforce your unlawful ordinance and violate my civil rights under color of law or authority on November 4th as I am exercising my constitutional right to vote while also exercising my individual constituional right to bear arms as permitted under Minnesota State Statute 624.714?

Any suggestions? And a big thank-you to kimberman for providing the eminently quoteable bit about home rule counties.



This is not nessacerily true. Since I own property in washington county and live in chisago I can vote in chisago for most things but school tax levys are voted on in both.

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But if “bear
arms” means, as the petitioners and the dissent think, the
Opinion of the Court
carrying of arms only for military purposes, one simply
cannot add “for the purpose of killing game.” The right “to
carry arms in the militia for the purpose of killing game”
is worthy of the mad hatter.


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