"Ramsey county bans firearms..."
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JGalt
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Post subject: "Ramsey county bans firearms..."  Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:09 pm |
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| Senior Member |
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Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:47 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Wouldn't you like to know...
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So, I go to vote, and I noticed two things:
1. A printed-out sign that basically says 'Ramsey county bans firearms at polling places'. I did a quick search, but didn't find anywhere in the statute that allows this. Did I miss it, or is the Sheriff overstepping his bounds?
2. I was asked for my name, and since I was already registered, the elderly woman checking people in found it and had my sign in. No request for ID... How the hell can any elections in this country be trusted?!?!
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"It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:33 pm |
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| Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 2782
Location: St. Paul
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1. Yes. It is not prohibited by law.
2. No. The Democrats like it this way. So many of their base don't have valid ID (Honest, that's what they've said in other states). Winning (and the POWER that goes with it) is more important than legitimacy.
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Srigs
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:26 pm |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:40 am
Posts: 3752
Location: East Suburbs
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Not prohibited unless in a school like my polling place.
No id was required by me but I showed mine anyway.
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Srigs
Side Guard Holsters
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton
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1911fan
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:45 pm |
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| On time out |
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:18 pm
Posts: 1689
Location: 35 W and Hiway 10
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I voted in Mounds View, and the City administrator was there, I said hi and informed him the signs were not binding or even legal to post. He made a call and took them down..... I would like to suggest a lawsuit on the basis of trying to make voting more difficult than it should be.... I DID return to my car and lock my gun up before approaching them, only because if some new court order had been passed in that last couple of days, I wanted to make sure by bringing it up, I was not informing them of my non compliance.
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molan labe
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djstaehlin
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:17 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:51 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Cottage Grove, MN
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After seeing those signs at my polling place in St. Paul during the previous election, I wrote a letter to the Election Commission. I received a letter back with a copy of a Ramsey County ordinance.
Ramsey County claims that (1) Ramsey County is a home-rule county and is bound by county ordinances and not state statutes and (2) that state law requires counties to maintain the safety of their facilities. Therefore, they claim that they can (and will) enforce the county ordinance prohibiting weapon possession in any Ramsey County building, including temporary facilities such as polling places.
That is BS but I don't have the money to challenge the ordinance and am not willing to be a test case.
DJ
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atripp
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:34 pm |
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Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:01 pm
Posts: 241
Location: Mankato
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Honestly, I can't see how any city/county will allow people to vote without a state issued ID. Its ridiculous.
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"The two worse sounds in the world are a boom when you expect a click and a click when you expect a boom."
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:10 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am
Posts: 2444
Location: West Central MN
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If a judge recognizes you, that is ID. You don't need ID, and you can't bring your gun. Democracy is a wonderful thing. 
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:52 pm |
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| Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 2782
Location: St. Paul
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The Ramsey County "home rule" statute is not a general grant of power [such as that found in other states] but, rather, a series of discrete statutory provisions none of which covers firearms or a general legislative police power. Here it is Quote: 383A.02. In addition to the powers and duties that Ramsey County has under the general laws of the state of Minnesota, Ramsey County has the following powers and duties [set forth in the remainder of Chapter 383A]. Furthermore, the state preemption statute says the following: Quote: 471.633. The legislature preempts all authority of a home rule charter or statutory city including a city of the first class, county, town, municipal corporation, or other governmental subdivision, or any of their instrumentalities, to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them,....
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dismal
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:07 am |
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| Senior Member |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:12 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Rochester, MN
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Regarding #2, my wife, a recent new citizen :  , voted for the first time today. She registered on site, and they only required a drivers license.
When I explained to her earlier that if you registered you don't need identification to vote, she couldn't believe it. Then I explained that you can register by mail without any ID also.  She's still surprised with how "informal" some things are here...
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havegunjoe
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:29 pm |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:32 am
Posts: 515
Location: Metro Area - Apple Valley
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djstaehlin wrote: After seeing those signs at my polling place in St. Paul during the previous election, I wrote a letter to the Election Commission. I received a letter back with a copy of a Ramsey County ordinance.
Ramsey County claims that (1) Ramsey County is a home-rule county and is bound by county ordinances and not state statutes and (2) that state law requires counties to maintain the safety of their facilities. Therefore, they claim that they can (and will) enforce the county ordinance prohibiting weapon possession in any Ramsey County building, including temporary facilities such as polling places.
That is BS but I don't have the money to challenge the ordinance and am not willing to be a test case.
DJ I wish I could pass this information provided by Kimberman on to the idiots from your election commission but I don’t live in that county. I sure would be interested in what their reply to this would be.
Furthermore, the state preemption statute says the following:
Quote:
471.633. The legislature preempts all authority of a home rule charter or statutory city including a city of the first class, county, town, municipal corporation, or other governmental subdivision, or any of their instrumentalities, to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them,....
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DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONTESTING THE VOTE.
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bkrafft
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:57 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:02 pm
Posts: 571
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I was reading the <a href=http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/cb/ordinances/Public%20Safety%20(gun)%20Ordinance%202003-214.pdf target=new>Ramsey County gun ordinance</a>[.pdf], and noticed Exception (3): Quote: persons who possess firearms, dangerous weapons, ammunition or explosives in a Ramsey County building or any space leased or controlled by Ramsey with the express consent of the Ramsey County Sheriff. Since any permit holder voting in Ramsey county must live there, then his/her permit is issued by the sheriff, does that not constitute 'express consent'? The alternative to just ignoring their silly sign is sending the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners the following letter: Quote: Dear Sir or Madam,
When I was voting in the primary on September 9, I noticed at both my old polling location and my new location signs to the effect of 'Ramsey County ordinance prohibits guns in these premises'.
Now even though Ramsey County is a "home rule" county, Chapter 383A is not a general grant of power to the county, but rather a series of discrete statutory provisions none of which covers firearms or a general legislative police power.
In addition, the Minnesota Legislature's preemption statute (471.633) specifically covers "home rule" counties when it says:
"The legislature preempts all authority of a home rule charter or statutory city including a ... county ... to regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by them...."
Now that you have been informed of these facts, may I assume that you will not be posting these unlawful signs, nor attempting to enforce your unlawful ordinance and violate my civil rights under color of law or authority on November 4th as I am exercising my constitutional right to vote while also exercising my individual constituional right to bear arms as permitted under Minnesota State Statute 624.714? Any suggestions? And a big thank-you to kimberman for providing the eminently quoteable bit about home rule counties.
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If the Government does not obey the Constitution, then what is Treason? -- Unknown
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Srigs
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:53 am |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:40 am
Posts: 3752
Location: East Suburbs
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Very good letter.
Too bad I can't use it for my polling place a school 
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Srigs
Side Guard Holsters
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton
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bkrafft
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:41 am |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:02 pm
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Srigs wrote: Too bad I can't use it for my polling place a school You know, I've been wondering about that. Since both the legislature and SCOTUS have stated RKABA is an individual right, isn't having voting in a prhoibited location on par with having it in a 'No Coloreds' location?
Just my $0.02.
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If the Government does not obey the Constitution, then what is Treason? -- Unknown
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mnglocker
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:31 am |
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:04 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Wright County
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bkrafft wrote: Srigs wrote: Too bad I can't use it for my polling place a school You know, I've been wondering about that. Since both the legislature and SCOTUS have stated RKABA is an individual right, isn't having voting in a prhoibited location on par with having it in a 'No Coloreds' location? Just my $0.02. IS this because I'm a gun-nut?? 
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Get Off My Lawn.
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bkrafft
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:41 am |
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:02 pm
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bkrafft wrote: The alternative to just ignoring their silly sign is sending the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners the following letter: Letter sent and bcc'd to David G, Joel R and kimberman.
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If the Government does not obey the Constitution, then what is Treason? -- Unknown
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