Talking points on the "Gun Show" bill
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kimberman
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Post subject: Talking points on the "Gun Show" bill Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:02 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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GOCRA is distributing this at the Capitol.
Quote: OPPOSE Rep. Michael Paymar's hidden gun registration bill!
Protect Minnesota and Citizens for a Safer Minnesota’s “Gun Show Background Check (and hidden Gun Registration) bill,” expected to be authored by Rep. Michael Paymar, is pure harassment of legitimate gun owners and their non-commercial disposition of their property because, as a 2008 empirical study by university Criminologists demonstrates , it will have NO EFFECT on homicides or suicides and provide NO REDUCTION in firearm-related deaths (or violent crime, for that matter). All it will do is impose unnecessary deprivation of liberty, hassle, delay, and cost on Minnesota’s 1.5 million legitimate gun owners.
GOCRA encourages you to OPPOSE this bill.
1. A January 2009 Star-Tribune article says that the Twin Cities’ homicide problem is largely one of uncontrolled gang/drug activity. Anyone who can sell or purchase illegal drugs can acquire a gun in that illegal transaction. An FBI report in February 2009 identifies “weapons trafficking” as a major GANG activity. Don’t be fooled, these are black market transactions; not those of legitimate gun owners.
2. The legitimate market (consisting of licensed dealers and private citizens) is not the same thing as the "black market" (consisting of thieves, "fences," and "accomplices"). There are two distinct markets with different actors! In a Business Week column, Professor Gary Becker the Nobel Prize winner in Economics stated: [t]here are two almost discrete markets for weapons. The legitimate market caters to people who want guns for hunting and for protection against holdups and burglaries. The [black] market caters to criminals who want weapons to help them steal, intimidate, rape, participate in gang warfare, and steal drugs. Becker goes on to note that controls on the legitimate sellers cannot have effect on an underground market that ignores those controls. CANNOT have any effect!!!
3. According to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms less than 1 in 50 guns acquired by criminals come from gun shows or private resales. And virtually all of that tiny number comes from “strawman purchases” made by accomplices who CAN pass any background check (as the Va. Tach and NIU killers both DID).
4. Minnesota statutes already contain FOUR (4) provisions to cut off “black market” transfers. They are: (1) 609.52 – Theft by the criminal himself, (2) 609; (2) 609.53 – Theft-once-removed by acquisition from a “fence;” (3) 609.66 sibd. 1c – Receipt from an accomplice/strawman; and (4) 624.7141 – Transfer to an ineligible person.
5. The bill targets the wrong people and won’t reduce murder or crime. It is simply a harassment bill to vex millions of law-abiding Minnesota gun owners. Perhaps that is why the Minnesota gun control act has never included these citizens and why the federal "Brady" Bill doesn't either!
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:52 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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THANK YOU!
Would the 80% of crimes are committed by <1% of the populace who are GANG members be going too far off message?
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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kecker
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:33 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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I'm always hesitant to get too worked up over a bill that hasn't even been introduced yet. Most bills don't even make it through committee. This one hasn't even been written yet....which makes me wonder how one can already criticize it.
Vigilance certainly, but so far nothing to get overly worked up about...
_________________ http://www.eckernet.com My mind is like a steel trap - rusty and illegal in 37 states.
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:10 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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kecker wrote: This one hasn't even been written yet....
Oh yes it has. Heather Martens from Citizens for a Safer Minnesota was carrying the jacketed bill around the state Office Building on Monday and Tuesday seeking co-authors. We also know 90% of what it contains (see HF3324 from last session) because we have an intelligence network. Rep. Paymar is a committee chairman. He can give it a hearing any time HE wants.
Do you think GOCRA's capitol team is stupid??? Bills don't make it through Committee because someone actively worked to kill them (usually behind the scenes). They seldom die of their own accord if the author is from the majority party (and never if he's the Chairman of a relevant committee).
I've only been doing this for 25 years. I'm retiring soon, do YOU want to spend 1/2 time each Spring lobbying for free?
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Lenny7
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:34 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am Posts: 1060 Location: Savage, MN
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craig101
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:35 pm |
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Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:58 pm Posts: 33
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Guys, FWIW if Joe says something about gun laws or the legislature i take it as gospel.
he's probably forgotten more of the legislative process than most of us will ever learn.
i remember going to CCRN meetings in the late 90s and the amount of knowledge that was in display was jaw dropping.
If Joe posted here tomorrow saying a bill was being introduced to ban hockey in this state, i would be on the phone ASAP bitching at my reps. the legislature is a murky place (think smoke filled back rooms). All kinds of crazy stuff goes on there....
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Lenny7
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:39 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am Posts: 1060 Location: Savage, MN
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That site won't take my money. Is there an address I can send a check to?
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:52 am |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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Lenny7 wrote: That site won't take my money. Is there an address I can send a check to?
GOCRA
P. O. Box 131254
St. Paul, MN 55113
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kecker
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:08 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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kimberman wrote: Oh yes it has. Heather Martens from Citizens for a Safer Minnesota was carrying the jacketed bill around the state Office Building on Monday and Tuesday seeking co-authors. We also know 90% of what it contains (see HF3324 from last session) because we have an intelligence network. Rep. Paymar is a committee chairman. He can give it a hearing any time HE wants.
Do you think GOCRA's capitol team is stupid??? Bills don't make it through Committee because someone actively worked to kill them (usually behind the scenes). They seldom die of their own accord if the author is from the majority party (and never if he's the Chairman of a relevant committee).
I've only been doing this for 25 years. I'm retiring soon, do YOU want to spend 1/2 time each Spring lobbying for free?
Ok I wasn't disparaging your efforts. I was not aware it had already been written, or that we knew what was in it. That wasn't mentioned above.
I've worked in politics for awhile now, not lobbying, the political side of politics. I know politicians talk a lot of big talk and most of the time it's just that. I also know activists and interest groups job is to stir up their members at the slightest provocation. That's the lens I was looking at this through.
Your second post obviously changes that quite a bit. So calm down, no reason to take offense.
_________________ http://www.eckernet.com My mind is like a steel trap - rusty and illegal in 37 states.
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sigman
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:46 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am Posts: 1317 Location: Racine, MN
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Kimberman,
Thanks once again for keeping us informed.
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tman065
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:15 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am Posts: 810 Location: Northern MN
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kecker wrote: ... So calm down, no reason to take offense.
For what it's worth, I've never been able to calm people down by ordering them to calm down...
_________________ Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY" Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:06 am |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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sigman
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:44 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am Posts: 1317 Location: Racine, MN
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Not even the choir to preach to?
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Mosin
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:45 am |
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Eagle-eyed watcher of legislation |
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:34 pm Posts: 185 Location: Bloomington
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This is the only response from a committee member I have received yet
Quote: I will vote against it as I told the Minnesota NRA lobbyist. Dave Olin
It's comments like that which really make me appreciate my NRA membership.
1 down 16 to go. I'm guessing Cornish and Drazkowski will vote against also but I'll wait to hear that from them.
_________________ April 19, 1775 the strongest military in the world attacked farmers and townspeople formed as militia in Concord. One year, 3 months, and 25,000 american casualties later, we would begin forming a government based on limited powers and individual liberties.
It's your constitution. They died for it. Read it. Know it.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution ... rview.html
http://LibertyMinnesota.com
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craig101
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:03 pm |
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Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:58 pm Posts: 33
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Hey Joe,
does GOCRA still maintain the old MNCCRN email list? are they going to send out an e-blast about this bill?
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