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 How come Permit to Carry a Pistol? 
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 Post subject: How come Permit to Carry a Pistol?
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:18 am 
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Here's a question that boggled me over the weekend. Why do our permits say "PERMIT TO CARRY A PISTOL"?

The people who put MPPA together are pretty damn smart, which is why words like "concealed" and "hidden" don't appear anywhere on it. That's very cool.

We also have nice things like long gun carry written into the law. We don't do it (much ), but it's nice to have, just in case, for bringing the rifle out to the car, specifically for those of us without driveways who rent.

So, why did the Creators seek to qualify the card with "pistol" when they went out of their way (one would think) to get long gun carry into the law?

I'm not suggesting these guys aren't smart. I'm more than sure there's a damn good reason for this, I just can't figure it on my own, try as I might. Someone wanna throw me a bone?

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Long gun carry isn't in the statute. It is an exemption in another statute.

In plain english it goes: 'Carrying a {longgun} is prohibited, unless you have a permit to carry a pistol.'

The guys that wrote it are smart. But, this section could have used a little something extra to help us out. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Pakrat wrote:
Long gun carry isn't in the statute. It is an exemption in another statute.

In plain english it goes: 'Carrying a {longgun} is prohibited, unless you have a permit to carry a pistol.'

The guys that wrote it are smart. But, this section could have used a little something extra to help us out. ;)


Yeah. What I mean is that there isn't anything in the statute specifying the permit toward handguns particularly. And that is good business.

Still, why even bother with PISTOL on the permit? Why not insist on PERMIT TO CARRY A FIREARM?

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:39 pm 
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Short form: because that's the way it was, and with all the other stuff that needed to be changed, messing around with the name didn't make a lot of sense. Besides, if poor Skogie's attention had been called to 624.7181, Skogie would have had a strokie.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:22 pm 
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joelr wrote:
Short form: because that's the way it was, and with all the other stuff that needed to be changed, messing around with the name didn't make a lot of sense. Besides, if poor Skogie's attention had been called to 624.7181, Skogie would have had a strokie.


When you say "that's the way is was" are you refering to the former "may issue" law? Is that what the wording was on the old permits so they just left it as is in the shall issue law?

I have always been curious myself as to the use of the word "pistol" on the permit. Although "pistol" in defined in the statute, the word "handgun" would have been more appropriate. A purist will tell you that a revolver is not a 'pistol'. And, like the OP said, knowing that the people who wrote the law are well versed in firearms I awaly thought it should say "Permit to Carry a Handgun" I know it's semantics but I always felt 'handgun" would be more correct and figured there was some underlying reason for using pistol instead.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:24 pm 
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parap1445 wrote:
joelr wrote:
Short form: because that's the way it was, and with all the other stuff that needed to be changed, messing around with the name didn't make a lot of sense. Besides, if poor Skogie's attention had been called to 624.7181, Skogie would have had a strokie.


When you say "that's the way is was" are you refering to the former "may issue" law? Is that what the wording was on the old permits so they just left it as is in the shall issue law?
Yup.
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I have always been curious myself as to the use of the word "pistol" on the permit. Although "pistol" in defined in the statute, the word "handgun" would have been more appropriate. A purist will tell you that a revolver is not a 'pistol'. And, like the OP said, knowing that the people who wrote the law are well versed in firearms I awaly thought it should say "Permit to Carry a Handgun" I know it's semantics but I always felt 'handgun" would be more correct and figured there was some underlying reason for using pistol instead.
Sure. But while I'm not fond of test cases, I'd purely love to be around for the one where a guy gets prosecuted for carrying a revolver because some cop and prosecutor think he only gets to carry a semiauto.

Hell, I'll volunteer . . .

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:49 pm 
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joelr wrote:
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Sure. But while I'm not fond of test cases, I'd purely love to be around for the one where a guy gets prosecuted for carrying a revolver because some cop and prosecutor think he only gets to carry a semiauto


I'll just stick to carrying my Para so as to be compliant with the wording on the card.

But seriously, I've wondered about the wording on the card and you've enlightened me. Thanks.

Now, who wrote the old law and why didn't they use the word "handgun"?
I had alwas kind of figured it was due to the general populace not knowing the difference between a pistol and a revolver and the common (if not technically incorrect) use of the term "pistol" to refer to all "handguns" and using the term that was widely recognized so as to avoid having to educate the uninformed on proper nomenclature.

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 Post subject: Re: How come Permit to Carry a Pistol?
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Sietch wrote:
Why do our permits say "PERMIT TO CARRY A PISTOL"?



So we can carry pistols.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 5:52 pm 
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Sietch wrote:
Yeah. What I mean is that there isn't anything in the statute specifying the permit toward handguns particularly. And that is good business.

The way I read this is that you think the statute doesn't specify pistols(or handguns) specifically as what you may carry?

Quote:
https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=624.714
subd. 1a.Permit required; penalty. A person, other than a peace officer, as defined in section 626.84, subdivision 1, who carries, holds, or possesses a pistol in a motor vehicle, snowmobile, or boat, or on or about the person's clothes or the person, or otherwise in possession or control in a public place, as defined in section 624.7181, subdivision 1, paragraph (c), without first having obtained a permit to carry the pistol is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. A person who is convicted a second or subsequent time is guilty of a felony.

You are only AUTHORIZED to carry a "pistol". If you carry a long gun, you are EXEMPTED from the punishment. It's a very fine distinction that for some reason I feel like making sure people understand.

As far as using "pistol" vs "handgun" in the statutes, I'll bet everything on it is a sign of the times (when it was written). I think of "handgun" as the politically correct term for "pistol". Now all the statutes are written towards "pistol" so no one has to change other statutes.

Quote:
https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=624.712
Subd. 2.Pistol. "Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor.
"Pistol" does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter and commonly known as a "BB gun," a scuba gun, a stud gun or nail gun used in the construction industry or children's pop guns or toys.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:10 pm 
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The word "handgun" is a neologism invented by proponents of gun control. More scary than pistol or revolver, I guess. See also "assault rifle" and "Saturday Night Special."

I've always thought that the idea that a revolver is not a pistol makes about as much sense as saying Golden Retrievers are not dogs.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Pistol \Pis"tol\, n. [F. pistole, pistolet, It. pistola; prob. from a form Pistola, for Pistoja, a town in Italy where pistols were first made. Cf. {Pistole}.] The smallest firearm used, intended to be fired from one hand, -- now of many patterns, and bearing a great variety of names. See Illust. of {Revolver}.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:25 pm 
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The AG's (DFLer Warren Spannus) initial drafts of the 1974-76 Minnesota gun control laws were copied from New Jersey. I'll bet the contemporary NJ statute used "pistol." The ignorance of the gun control crowd knows no end.

In 1997, a decision was made (by the bill authors and the proponent's leadership) to change nothing other than the criteria and procedures for the ISSUANCE of permits. Thereafter, every legislative sessions' carry permit bill was drafted IAW that goal. Thus, only section 624.714 was dealt with in the bill not the entire set of Minnesota gun control laws.


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:16 am 
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Curious, anyone ever heard of a permit holder open carrying a long gun?


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:17 pm 
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There were a couple people, I want to say they were carrying AK's. Maybe in St Cloud?


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:59 pm 
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Are they out of jail yet?


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