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 If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great. 
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 Post subject: If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:05 am 
Wise Elder
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A last minute bill introduction. Don't bet on it though.
The DNR doesn't like handguns.

AUTHORS: Dill, Thao, McNamera, Cornish, Sterner

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H.F. No. 2391, as introduced - 86th Legislative Session (2009-2010) Posted on May 16, 2009

1.1A bill for an act
1.2relating to capital improvements; appropriating money for a shooting sports
1.3facility; authorizing the sale and issuance of state bonds.
1.4BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MINNESOTA:

1.5 Section 1. APPROPRIATION.
1.6$6,000,000 is appropriated from the bond proceeds fund to the commissioner
1.7of natural resources to construct, furnish, and equip a shooting sports facility in the
1.8seven-county metropolitan area.

1.9 Sec. 2. BOND SALE.
1.10To provide the money appropriated in section 1 from the bond proceeds fund,
1.11the commissioner of finance shall sell and issue bonds of the state in an amount up to
1.12$6,000,000 in the manner, upon the terms, and with the effect prescribed by Minnesota
1.13Statutes, sections 16A.631 to 16A.675, and by the Minnesota Constitution, article XI,
1.14sections 4 to 7.


Start sending the message now.
No handgun sports facilities, no deal.

Did anyone hear about this from the NRA?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:33 am 
The Man
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Not me. Did hear, though, that they're the driving force behind Gura's Chicago lawsuit -- which, I suspect, comes as a surprise to Gura.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:06 am 
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Wouldn't it still be a good thing, even if it were long arms-only?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:13 pm 
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Sounds good to me! I can't find a good place to shoot rifles in the metro area that are not either indoors and incredibly expensive, or incredibly expensive and not open to new membership. I have to go to WI to shoot what I want... so this would be nice to have.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:52 am 
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lets put it... let's see....





How about at the National Sports Center in Blaine?




Makes sense, doesn't it?



Especially since I live only a mile or two from there, :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:57 am 
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Remind me again where the Government gets the power to take my money and put it towards the hobbies of others?

I wouldn't like it if they were building a skating rink, baseball stadium, or ski hill... and I don't like it now that they are trying to bribe me with my own money.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:17 pm 
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replicant_argent wrote:
lets put it... let's see....





How about at the National Sports Center in Blaine?




Makes sense, doesn't it?



Especially since I live only a mile or two from there, :wink:


I like that idea :D

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 Post subject: Re: If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:32 pm 
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As I understand it, the land they're looking at is the land near Rosemount that the U of M gave up in exchange for the new stadium. It would be near 52 and county road 46 on the site of the old ammunition plant. It has been discussed as a multi use shooting facility that would encompass many disciplines.

If they could build the 1600 acre World Shooting Sports Complex in Sparta Illinois of all places and with Illinois tax dollars, why couldn't they build this in Minnesota. There is also a 2600 acre shooting facility opening soon that is owned by Clark County , Nevada. It's at the north end of Decatur in Las Vegas.

There is a push to promote some shooting as a sanctioned high school sport in Minnesota. Eight school sanctioned teams competed in the first Minnesota High School Trapshoot a few weeks ago in Prior Lake with about 150 kids participating. That was funded mostly by the MN Trapshooters Association through their youth fundraising programs.

I see the promotion of any shooting sports, in any state, as a good thing. Should taxpayers pay for it? I think it's the only way to get it done, sad to say.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:16 pm 
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I like the concept, I just don't like the people on the tiller. The way politicians spend money, $6,000,000 might buy a broom and a folding chair.

But, a place to shoot, so close to the House of Coates, might not be so bad.

I think the chances of every little detail, if this passes, being a win-win up one side and down the other, pretty slim.

If its from purely tax money, I'd prefer a check made out to me, for my share, personally. A facility paid for with our taxes, that will probably charge us a fee to use, just doesn't seem right. Sort of getting worked on one and, and then the other. Though I'd have more use for this than I would a new roundabout intersection, or another 150 road construction projects all at the same time, which take about 17 years to finish.

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 Post subject: Re: If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:06 pm 
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For 6 million it should include handguns. This is the first I've heard of this. so maybe it's so some politician's friend can sell land for a good price.

It's the kind of thing everyone needs, just like roads, but the economics are such that a private facility charging the same rate to everyone would result in most folks not using. Taxes should buy something, and I think shooting is enough in the public interest tha it's OK for the public to support it through bonding.


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 Post subject: Re: If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:45 am 
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"Remind me again where the Government gets the power to take my money and put it towards the hobbies of others?"
- - - - -

Section 8. Clause 1. The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

"General welfare." Covers pretty much whatever you can think of, plus lots more. "By the terms of the Constitution, the power of Congress to levy taxes . . . “reaches every subject,” . . . is “exhaustive”, . . . and it “embraces every conceivable power of taxation.”" (Some Guy At Cornell, quoting Some Other Guys With Wigs, some years ago.)

You already pay for free needles for addicts, free breast implants for emotionally tortured prisoners trapped in men's bodies, abortions for 13-year-olds, cars for Massachusetts welfare-recipients, you pay part of every single one of Bill Clinton's bar tabs in Manhatten as he plays Studly to hundreds of women far more beautiful than anyone you or I know, you pay the salaries of University professors who teach that everyone like you must be killed or enslaved if we're ever to have justice, you pay to keep Jamaican sugar-growers poor, (a lot, actually), you buy CDs of classical music to hand out amongst rich people at NPR parties, and in fact you bought NPR for them, you paid to get Michael Moore some astounding subsidies for his films, you bought Al Gore a big honkin' houseboat, . . . .

. . . and NOW you want to start to bitch about it 'cuz they're gonna build a rifle range?

(Heck, it's better to let them spend some state money on it now - get 'em used to facilities where gunpowder can be used - and later, we'll just quietly have one or two or thirty lanes approved for handguns, too. Since they usually manage to mismanage most fee-based "public" facilities (it costs HOW MUCH state money for every light-rail rider?!), it'll be running at a deficit within the first year, and we'll present the handgun users as a new source of revenue. The fact that most of the revenue would be collected from conservatives - i.e., the ultimate in "progressive" taxation in Democrat minds - would be the killer app sealing the deal.)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:03 am 
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SultanOfBrunei wrote:
Remind me again where the Government gets the power to take my money and put it towards the hobbies of others?

I wouldn't like it if they were building a skating rink, baseball stadium, or ski hill... and I don't like it now that they are trying to bribe me with my own money..


-A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I would say that this is actually helping to regulate the militia here and the people have the right to such an opportunity. I would prefer it be done through private sector funding but due to the costs involved in such a venture it is probably not feasible. This "hobby" may some day be the life or death of a free state and I think the people have an interest in a well regulated militia.


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 Post subject: Re: If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:10 am 
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I would argue that a properly designed, publicly funded shooting range is a public good. At least if it was designed to train the unorganized militia in the use of arms.

Unfortunately, with government involved this will turn into a very expensive, limited use range with limited hours and will cater to a very narrow group of shooters.

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 Post subject: Re: If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:24 am 
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Would anyone like to bet this will turn out like the Braemar range, open to the pulic for 3 hours on a Saturday morning and reserved for special people the rest of the week!

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Last edited by Selurcspi on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If HANDGUN SPORTS are included, this could be great.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:53 am 
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bobby b wrote:
"Remind me again where the Government gets the power to take my money and put it towards the hobbies of others?"
- - - - -

Section 8. Clause 1. The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

"General welfare." Covers pretty much whatever you can think of, plus lots more. <...>

. . . and NOW you want to start to bitch about it 'cuz they're gonna build a rifle range? <...>

The General Welfare Clause? The two words used to push all sorts of Government into our lives. Fuck the General Welfare Clause.

And I am certainly not starting to bitch now.


To the point brought up in regards to aid the militia. The 2A doesn't say anything about our Government funding the militia, merely that they can't prohibit them from doing what they do.


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