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 MN politics 
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 Post subject: MN politics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:54 am 
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Hi,

I lived in MN for the majority of my life thus far and currently reside in southwestern Missouri Ozarks.

Some observations I have noticed from my travels and time in the firearms business as a business owner.

1. People in general and a most women have a great respect for you and want to know what you have to offer when they find out you are in the firearms business in MO and most other southern states. Most of the states in the south have hundreds of thousands of CCW permit holders. In MN it seems to be generally a pariah response and people at the time of finding out really want nothing more than to start a conversation with another person. The attitudes in MN are generally liberal and that is what you have to work with like it or not.

2. Politicians’ want to get re-elected. 61,000 MN permit holders is not a huge voting block by anyones standards. You just (If they ever get done) lost a good friend in Norm Coleman and gained a comedian that is not a supporter to his post DC. Pawlenty is going to be out and he was a good friend to you all (insert sothern accent). Who knows who will occupy the Governors mansion after the next election cycle? If the liberals continue to gain ground and get the governors seat back, things may change for the permit to carry, and you could go back to "may issue". MN and Wisconsin/Illinois are more alike than you might like, and they do not share MN's views on handguns. It may be prudent to support your republican leaders [insert pro-gun] and elected officials both monetarily and with your votes to continue to gain ground. They stuck thier necks out to get "shall issue" in MN and everything you get in that liberal state is going to be a struggle. My opinion is stick with them, support them, and let them know how you feel about issues that concern you. Again, 61,000 is not a big voting block and they should know they have your continued support, especially when it is such a struggle to do things that my seem easier like Reciprocity. As a side note, I think the 61,000 number is unbelievably low for the voices that were asking for "shall issue". People have to "buy in" to the achievements they have accomplished with their legislators.

3. Won't agree to terms. lose Lakers, later gain new team wolves. Won't agree to terms, lose North Stars, fix Civic Center and bring in a new hockey team. Fair weather friends and dealing with the fallout has a long history in MN. How are the Packers doing? Stay all weather friends. Get your permits to show your support for the legislators helping to achieve your [new] rights and hopefully things will slowly continue to move in your favor. Don't lose your newfound rights over petty bickering. You can always get a UT, NH, or FL permit so you can get your carry states up in the meantime.

Thanks, and I hope that MN continues it's long fight for firearms rights and continues to gain ground. Your hunting/fishing heritage and handgun sports clubs memberships and numbers are something to be very proud of and guard.


1911seller


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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:20 am 
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Moved to MN Gun Politics

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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:22 pm 
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Oh Dean, I bet you couldn't wait to move that posting!! lol Boy's with toys


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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:09 am 
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I had to have a beer first. :D

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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:44 am 
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My only previous experience in the state of Missouri was Fort Leonard Wood, which left me with no desire to ever go there again, but 1911seller has made me reconsider.


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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:24 am 
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Yeah, I'll be sorry to see Pawlenty go. He helped us through the door even if he got lost after the fact. He's still a good guy and I still give him my nod of respect.

The numbers don't bother me a whole lot. People in MN generally feel pretty safe, so our numbers won't be as high as states where people feel like they are constantly being stared down by reprobates and sociopaths. In those places the numbers are very high because everyone is constantly self-conscious about their personal safety. At least that's one factor in the numbers. Culture (as you pointed out) is another. Whether 60,000 is a huge mass or a paltry few depends on who's telling the story. Does Hennepin want to strike down the issuance process? Then they will say we are so many that we are bankrupting most MN counties. Do they want to convince a council member that we don't matter? Then we are too few to merit consideration. LOL. That's politics, and not just for us but for every group and every interest.

And we owe a great debt of gratitude to the Southern (and other) states that wrote their carry laws before we did. It enabled our people to write what might be the best carry laws in the nation. I always laugh when I read about the provisions for carry in some states ... no churches, no bars, no public gatherings, no banks, no parks, .... Sounds to me like they have a permit carry in their own house and nowhere else. Georgia is the prime example and we could have easily fallen into the same thing without others being test cases.

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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:08 am 
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lance22 wrote:
Yeah, I'll be sorry to see Pawlenty go. He helped us through the door even if he got lost after the fact. He's still a good guy and I still give him my nod of respect.

The numbers don't bother me a whole lot. People in MN generally feel pretty safe, so our numbers won't be as high as states where people feel like they are constantly being stared down by reprobates and sociopaths. In those places the numbers are very high because everyone is constantly self-conscious about their personal safety. At least that's one factor in the numbers. Culture (as you pointed out) is another. Whether 60,000 is a huge mass or a paltry few depends on who's telling the story. Does Hennepin want to strike down the issuance process? Then they will say we are so many that we are bankrupting most MN counties. Do they want to convince a council member that we don't matter? Then we are too few to merit consideration. LOL. That's politics, and not just for us but for every group and every interest.

And we owe a great debt of gratitude to the Southern (and other) states that wrote their carry laws before we did. It enabled our people to write what might be the best carry laws in the nation. I always laugh when I read about the provisions for carry in some states ... no churches, no bars, no public gatherings, no banks, no parks, .... Sounds to me like they have a permit carry in their own house and nowhere else. Georgia is the prime example and we could have easily fallen into the same thing without others being test cases.


+1. Hear, hear!

I do agree, I like that ours wasn't written in a vacuum, and my hats off to all those that did help write ours - you did a damn fine job.


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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:25 am 
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Q_Continuum wrote:
lance22 wrote:
Yeah, I'll be sorry to see Pawlenty go. He helped us through the door even if he got lost after the fact. He's still a good guy and I still give him my nod of respect.

The numbers don't bother me a whole lot. People in MN generally feel pretty safe, so our numbers won't be as high as states where people feel like they are constantly being stared down by reprobates and sociopaths. In those places the numbers are very high because everyone is constantly self-conscious about their personal safety. At least that's one factor in the numbers. Culture (as you pointed out) is another. Whether 60,000 is a huge mass or a paltry few depends on who's telling the story. Does Hennepin want to strike down the issuance process? Then they will say we are so many that we are bankrupting most MN counties. Do they want to convince a council member that we don't matter? Then we are too few to merit consideration. LOL. That's politics, and not just for us but for every group and every interest.

And we owe a great debt of gratitude to the Southern (and other) states that wrote their carry laws before we did. It enabled our people to write what might be the best carry laws in the nation. I always laugh when I read about the provisions for carry in some states ... no churches, no bars, no public gatherings, no banks, no parks, .... Sounds to me like they have a permit carry in their own house and nowhere else. Georgia is the prime example and we could have easily fallen into the same thing without others being test cases.


+1. Hear, hear!

I do agree, I like that ours wasn't written in a vacuum, and my hats off to all those that did help write ours - you did a damn fine job.
Yes, they did, and it's not just the results that matter, but the method that led to them. Joe and David, when advising Lynda Boudreau, didn't just think hey, this would be cool, and write it down, but looked at both the laws and the results in other states. That's why, just to pick one example, that we've got the between-the-car-and-the-trunk language in the schools compromise part.

As to Pawlenty, I'll be happy to see him go, and hope he gets out of politics. A politician who won't keep his word on the little, easy things -- see all the discussion of the "reciprocity" mess -- can't be trusted to keep his word on the bigger, more important stuff.

I think there's a real (albeit small) chance that the upcoming governor's race will come down to Bakk vs. Sviggum or Bakk vs. Seifert, and if that happens, I can tell you right now who wins: Minnesota.

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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:19 pm 
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With about 23 zillion people running for Governor at this point, it's become sort of a joke in political party circles that when introducing yourself either in person or at the start of a committee meeting to indicate if you're running for Governor.

Far too many people running at this point to get any sense of strength or breadth of support for anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:13 am 
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I would like everyone to take the time to send a donation to Tom Bakk as he will be the only non-millionaire in the race. You can send up to 100 per couple and get it refunded if pawlenty doesnt unallot the program. Which seems like a political manuveur to help republicans eliminate Bakk as a canidate.

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But if “bear
arms” means, as the petitioners and the dissent think, the
Opinion of the Court
carrying of arms only for military purposes, one simply
cannot add “for the purpose of killing game.” The right “to
carry arms in the militia for the purpose of killing game”
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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:25 pm 
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jrp267 wrote:
I would like everyone to take the time to send a donation to Tom Bakk as he will be the only non-millionaire in the race. You can send up to 100 per couple and get it refunded if pawlenty doesnt unallot the program. Which seems like a political manuveur to help republicans eliminate Bakk as a canidate.


He's a union endorsed DFL candidate that used to be a labor representative for the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and to quote form him on a lib site;http://www.mnprogressiveproject.com/diary/3374/the-pros-and-cons-of-tom-bakk-one-iron-rangers-take
"...I'm hoping delegates will see that the DFL hasn't had much luck running Twin Cities liberals. Perhaps they'll see a rural candidate with strong union ties who can reach out to business might have a much better chance of winning."
While in fairness he got an A or A+ from the NRA some accomplishment for a DLF member he only has a 9% ranking from the taxpayers league and has very mixed ratings from the chamber of commerce 14 - 50 and he is touted as a strong supporter of them ????? However he sure dose have labor's back with a lowest rating of 80 and several years of 100 (http://www.votesmart.org)

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"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." - John Adams
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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:38 pm 
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I am familiar with Tom as I am a union carpenter. I have questioned him at length on the gun issue he has my vote.

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But if “bear
arms” means, as the petitioners and the dissent think, the
Opinion of the Court
carrying of arms only for military purposes, one simply
cannot add “for the purpose of killing game.” The right “to
carry arms in the militia for the purpose of killing game”
is worthy of the mad hatter.


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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:23 pm 
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Graned Bakk is better then Rybak but there is already others out there with similar views, but have other positions more in line with the self-reliant almost libertarian undertone that I've picked up hanging around here.

Not that Seifert will be my guy but i think he has better scores
NRA A, Chamber of Commerce 72-100, taxpayers league 73-100, and my personal favorite an AFL-CIO rating of 6 with a high rating of 46 from the Minnesota Association of Professional Employees

Edit:
I think the long and the short of it is while I think the candidates views on firearms is a window into how they understand the relationship between citizens and their representatives. It dose not do any good to have the right to defend the farm when the state just takes it by taxation and regulation.

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"The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and assistance to foreign hands should be curtailed, lest Rome fall." - Cicero - 55 BC
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." - John Adams
"Anybody that wants the Presidency so much that he'll spend two years organizing and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office." -- David Broder


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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:48 am 
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jrp267 wrote:
You can send up to 100 per couple and get it refunded if pawlenty doesnt unallot the program. Which seems like a political manuveur to help republicans eliminate Bakk as a canidate.


The PCR program has been unalloted (it was announced a week before your post). And it's hardly a political manoeuvre to help eliminate Bakk as a candidate. First of all Republicans historically benefited from the program more than Democrats did, so despite ideological opposition to the program they did benefit from it more.

Plus while it was a political move, it wasn't to benefit or eliminate any candidate. Pawlenty had to unallot a lot of programs to slash the budget. How bad would it look if he left a program that directly benefits politicians and ONLY politicians??? It was part of setting a good example in order to give his move some level of legitimacy.

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 Post subject: Re: MN politics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:27 pm 
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Mattxd Curiously what do you do for a living? I am going to avoid the bait at this time but would love to dicuss your favorite score anytime in person. Sorry kecker I was working this week and had baseball 3 nights so I didnt keep up with what got the ax. Sometimes I hardly have time to check in here.

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But if “bear
arms” means, as the petitioners and the dissent think, the
Opinion of the Court
carrying of arms only for military purposes, one simply
cannot add “for the purpose of killing game.” The right “to
carry arms in the militia for the purpose of killing game”
is worthy of the mad hatter.


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