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Complaining about Joel Over at Day Care http://ellegon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13283 |
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Author: | Jonahwaters [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Complaining about Joel Over at Day Care |
golly, opinions sure do vary from one gun forum to the next. i was just reading a thread in the "training" area of mnguntalk and noticed a heck of alot guys jumping all over Joel. so, are the instructors over on guntalk as good as here, or what? i'm still going to take my class with DonL, but just thought these differences of opinions from forum to forum were worth mentioning. have a nice day guys. i'll check back in a couple days. jw |
Author: | joelr [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
Jonahwaters wrote: so, are the instructors over on guntalk as good as here, or what? |
Author: | RobD [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
Jonahwaters wrote: golly, opinions sure do vary from one gun forum to the next. Opinions are like a-holes... theres plenty of both on the forums. |
Author: | joelr [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
True. Facts, though, don't vary; I'm by nature fairly impatient with folks who don't get that while they do get to choose their own opinions, they don't get to choose their own facts. Around here, that is. Joe Penaz is an embarrassment to protoplasm is an opinion -- one that, I think, I've come by fairly, but that's another issue. It's slander to say that Joe Penaz let one of his students point a gun at Joel's back isn't an opinion; it's counterfactual, as a: it isn't slander, and b: Joe Penaz, the embarrassment to protoplasm, did just that, in front of witnesses. DonL was among the witnesses, by the way. |
Author: | RobD [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
joelr wrote: DonL was among the witnesses, by the way. Yep, he shares the story often as an example. |
Author: | Jonahwaters [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
joelr wrote: True. Facts, though, don't vary; I'm by nature fairly impatient with folks who don't get that while they do get to choose their own opinions, they don't get to choose their own facts. Around here, that is. Joe Penaz is an embarrassment to protoplasm is an opinion -- one that, I think, I've come by fairly, but that's another issue. It's slander to say that Joe Penaz let one of his students point a gun at Joel's back isn't an opinion; it's counterfactual, as a: it isn't slander, and b: Joe Penaz, the embarrassment to protoplasm, did just that, in front of witnesses. DonL was among the witnesses, by the way. Joel, 19 different posters on guntalk responded to your thread negatively. is it possiblr they are all students of Penaz? wow, i almost couldn't believe all the trash talk about you. do you really block ip addresses so some guys can't come here to learn on your forum? |
Author: | mrokern [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
Jonahwaters wrote: golly, opinions sure do vary from one gun forum to the next. i was just reading a thread in the "training" area of mnguntalk and noticed a heck of alot guys jumping all over Joel. so, are the instructors over on guntalk as good as here, or what? i'm still going to take my class with DonL, but just thought these differences of opinions from forum to forum were worth mentioning. have a nice day guys. i'll check back in a couple days. jw There's a bit of historical animosity there...lots of background. But bluntly, if anyone's actually criticizing Joel as an instructor (as opposed to criticizing the forum), I'll loudly call bullshit on them. Tell ya what... You're going to be getting a top-notch class from Don, no question about it. I doubt you'd find anybody on either forum who would criticize him as an instructor or as a shooter. When you get a break during the class, why not ask him who else he'd recommend for instruction? -Mark |
Author: | joelr [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
Jonahwaters wrote: joelr wrote: True. Facts, though, don't vary; I'm by nature fairly impatient with folks who don't get that while they do get to choose their own opinions, they don't get to choose their own facts. Around here, that is. Joe Penaz is an embarrassment to protoplasm is an opinion -- one that, I think, I've come by fairly, but that's another issue. It's slander to say that Joe Penaz let one of his students point a gun at Joel's back isn't an opinion; it's counterfactual, as a: it isn't slander, and b: Joe Penaz, the embarrassment to protoplasm, did just that, in front of witnesses. DonL was among the witnesses, by the way. Joel, 19 different posters on guntalk responded to your thread negatively. Quote: is it possiblr they are all students of Penaz? Quote: wow, i almost couldn't believe all the trash talk about you. Quote: do you really block ip addresses Quote: so some guys can't come here to learn on your forum? |
Author: | mrokern [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
Jonahwaters wrote: joelr wrote: True. Facts, though, don't vary; I'm by nature fairly impatient with folks who don't get that while they do get to choose their own opinions, they don't get to choose their own facts. Around here, that is. Joe Penaz is an embarrassment to protoplasm is an opinion -- one that, I think, I've come by fairly, but that's another issue. It's slander to say that Joe Penaz let one of his students point a gun at Joel's back isn't an opinion; it's counterfactual, as a: it isn't slander, and b: Joe Penaz, the embarrassment to protoplasm, did just that, in front of witnesses. DonL was among the witnesses, by the way. Joel, 19 different posters on guntalk responded to your thread negatively. is it possiblr they are all students of Penaz? wow, i almost couldn't believe all the trash talk about you. do you really block ip addresses so some guys can't come here to learn on your forum? (ADMIN HAT ON) I'll take this. The ban list here at TCC is very, very small, regardless of what a few people say. The list of people who Joel has actually Rule Zeroed is even smaller. It's funny how many people claim to have been kicked out for just disagreeing with Joel. Hell, if that was true half of the mods and admins around here would be gone. If you're banned from here, it isn't for taking a class from a specific instructor, and it isn't for disagreeing with Joel. It's usually for a cranial - rectal inversion. (ADMIN HAT OFF) -Mark |
Author: | joelr [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
mrokern wrote: I'll take this. The ban list here at TCC is very, very small, regardless of what a few people say. The list of people who Joel has actually Rule Zeroed is even smaller. It's funny how many people claim to have been kicked out for just disagreeing with Joel. Hell, if that was true half of the mods and admins around here would be gone. |
Author: | Jonahwaters [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
thanks guys. i can hardly wait to take my class. and yes i'll ask DonL who he thinks are instructors worth taking classes from. Joel, i do really wonder why you bother advertising on guntalk. seems they don't like you over there. i'm hesitant about joining guntalk because of the conflicting discussions. |
Author: | mrokern [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
Jonahwaters wrote: thanks guys. i can hardly wait to take my class. and yes i'll ask DonL who he thinks are instructors worth taking classes from. Joel, i do really wonder why you bother advertising on guntalk. seems they don't like you over there. i'm hesitant about joining guntalk because of the conflicting discussions. I'd join, if for no other reason than there are events posted on one forum that don't always make it onto the other and you won't be able to see a lot without a user name. I've got a membership, but I think I've only got a couple posts. I come down very firmly into one of the camps in this argument, but it doesn't mean that there aren't good people on the other side too. -Mark ETA - You'll find that there tends to be more sport shooting and "gun guy" talk over there at times, while the political activist stuff is usually here. Each forum gets a good amount of the other, but there are definitely some...specialities, shall we say. |
Author: | joelr [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
Jonahwaters wrote: Joel, i do really wonder why you bother advertising on guntalk. Now, if listings there cost something, I'd have to do some analysis, and might or might not share the numbers with others. But they don't; they're free, and worth that cost. ETA: if you've got anything else you're wondering about, feel free to ask, if you care to; I'll feel free to answer, if I care to. Fair? |
Author: | DeanC [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
Well, one nice thing about both boards now is you can choose a specified user and put them on your ignore list and not have to read their posts at all. It spared me some real irritation AFAIK on MGT and probably will here too. |
Author: | joelr [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: looking for a quality carry permit instructor |
DeanC wrote: Well, one nice thing about both boards now is you can choose a specified user and put them on your ignore list and not have to read their posts at all. It spared me some real irritation AFAIK on MGT and probably will here too. |
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