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 Fresh Out of Skills Training? 
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 Post subject: Fresh Out of Skills Training?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:14 pm 
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Location: Mound, MN
June 2008.

A Crystal police officer pulls me over after 1am while I am on my way home from work (security) in Brooklyn Center.

He sent me a ticket in the mail accompanied by this letter: http://jdchristian.com/documents/crystalcop.pdf

When I received the ticket and his letter, I sent this e-mail: http://www.jdchristian.com/documents/myreply.pdf

I showed up for court, my name was nowhere listed. :shock:

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<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:28 pm 
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For a new guy, you have a lot of stories!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:30 pm 
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I aim to please?! :shock:

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<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:36 pm 
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Sounds like you got ticketed for violating a state law. It also sounds, frankly, from this and the Blaine incident, like you would rather argue than get away without a citation.

I'm not saying the cops were right or polite, but that avoidance, de-escalation and deterrence are tools that you might want to add to your so-far-scant arsenal of "argue."

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 Post subject: Re: Fresh Out of Skills Training?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:53 pm 
The Man
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JD Christian wrote:
June 2008.

A Crystal police officer pulls me over after 1am while I am on my way home from work (security) in Brooklyn Center.

He sent me a ticket in the mail accompanied by this letter: http://jdchristian.com/documents/crystalcop.pdf

When I received the ticket and his letter, I sent this e-mail: http://www.jdchristian.com/documents/myreply.pdf

I showed up for court, my name was nowhere listed. :shock:
Isn't that how Randy Weaver ended up in even more serious trouble? :)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:18 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
Sounds like you got ticketed for violating a state law. It also sounds, frankly, from this and the Blaine incident, like you would rather argue than get away without a citation.

I'm not saying the cops were right or polite, but that avoidance, de-escalation and deterrence are tools that you might want to add to your so-far-scant arsenal of "argue."


I did get ticketed (a month later) for breaking a state statute. However, that does not mean that the officer was correct in his argumentative statements. I had also planned on demonstrating that the position of my GPS unit was safer than where the "law" says it should be.

Yes, somtimes I should keep my mouth shut. I have a serious problem being vocal about what I believe in.

joelr wrote:
JD Christian wrote:
June 2008.

A Crystal police officer pulls me over after 1am while I am on my way home from work (security) in Brooklyn Center.

He sent me a ticket in the mail accompanied by this letter: http://jdchristian.com/documents/crystalcop.pdf

When I received the ticket and his letter, I sent this e-mail: http://www.jdchristian.com/documents/myreply.pdf

I showed up for court, my name was nowhere listed. :shock:
Isn't that how Randy Weaver ended up in even more serious trouble? :)


I have to admit, I don't understand the comparison.

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:56 pm 
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JD Christian wrote:
However, that does not mean that the officer was correct in his argumentative statements. I had also planned on demonstrating that the position of my GPS unit was safer than where the "law" says it should be.


The officer was correct: you're not allowed to have things stuck to your windshield. It's a pretty stupid law, and 48 other states have figured it out, but it's still the law (not the "law").

Safer has nothing to do with it. Everyone would be safer if I could carry my gun into my kids' schools, but the law is not on my side.

Quote:
I have a serious problem being vocal about what I believe in.


You should work on that problem. The officer can't change the law, so arguing with him was a fruitless exercise, like teasing a bull.

If you want to make a change, talk to your legislator about removing the stupid windshield law. Easy stuff like this gets taken care of all the time.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
Safer has nothing to do with it. Everyone would be safer if I could carry my gun into my kids' schools, but the law is not on my side.


MN Statute 609.66, subdivision 1d, Subsection e8. It would be my understanding that you can ask for written permission. Which is what I did at my son's school and received. https://webrh12.revisor.leg.state.mn.us ... ?id=609.66

Andrew Rothman wrote:
You should work on that problem. The officer can't change the law, so arguing with him was a fruitless exercise, like teasing a bull.

If you want to make a change, talk to your legislator about removing the stupid windshield law. Easy stuff like this gets taken care of all the time.


I agree. Arguing with the officer was completely pointless and it got me nowhere. I was tired, fresh off of work and just wanted to go home. I didn't want to play his game. I'm also aware of the irony.

It is the law, yes. It's a stupid law that needs clerification due to today's available technology. Should you have a DVD player stuck to your windshield? No. But a navigational aid? I figure less time looking below the dash line the better.

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:

I'm not saying the cops were right or polite, but that avoidance, de-escalation and deterrence are tools that you might want to add to your so-far-scant arsenal of "argue."


As a former Crystal resident, I can attest to the fact that this is sound advice for dealing with one of their "finest", especially at that time of night.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:58 pm 
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JD Christian wrote:
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Safer has nothing to do with it. Everyone would be safer if I could carry my gun into my kids' schools, but the law is not on my side.


MN Statute 609.66, subdivision 1d, Subsection e8. It would be my understanding that you can ask for written permission. Which is what I did at my son's school and received. https://webrh12.revisor.leg.state.mn.us ... ?id=609.66


Gosh, if only, at some point during my 40 carry classes or training and certifying over 70 carry permit instructors, I had thought of that! :)

Is your son's school public or private?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:14 pm 
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Easy to fix, though.

Quote:
169.71 WINDSHIELD.
Subdivision 1. Prohibitions generally; exceptions. (a) A person shall not drive or operate any motor vehicle with:
(1) a windshield cracked or discolored to an extent to limit or obstruct proper vision;
(2) any objects suspended between the driver and the windshield to an extent to limit or obstruct proper vision, other than sun visors and rearview mirrors and electronic toll collection devices;...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:02 pm 
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kimberman wrote:
Easy to fix, though.

Quote:
169.71 WINDSHIELD.
Subdivision 1. Prohibitions generally; exceptions. (a) A person shall not drive or operate any motor vehicle with:
(1) a windshield cracked or discolored to an extent to limit or obstruct proper vision;
(2) any objects suspended between the driver and the windshield to an extent to limit or obstruct proper vision, other than sun visors and rearview mirrors and electronic toll collection devices;...


If only we knew a lawyer, maybe a professor, even, with extensive experience lobbying the legislature, who had an interest in automotive issues in particular, and was already planning on helping some small changes through a transportation bill in the next session... :D

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:20 am 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
JD Christian wrote:
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Safer has nothing to do with it. Everyone would be safer if I could carry my gun into my kids' schools, but the law is not on my side.


MN Statute 609.66, subdivision 1d, Subsection e8. It would be my understanding that you can ask for written permission. Which is what I did at my son's school and received. https://webrh12.revisor.leg.state.mn.us ... ?id=609.66


Gosh, if only, at some point during my 40 carry classes or training and certifying over 70 carry permit instructors, I had thought of that! :)

Is your son's school public or private?


Ouch man. Was that meant as sarcastic as it seemed? I was just trying to be helpful. I wasn't trying to say you were unaware of that.

Hell, I didn't even know that until I read through everything.

To answer your question, my son goes to a small Christian School. The principal even took it to the board. I have their full support and written permission as long as it is properly concealed.

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:40 am 
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Image

First shot: visor up. Second shot: visor down.

Please note this isn't the best representation of what the view is in my vehicle. As being in it the view is quite wide open and unubstructed.

My GPS unit is as high up on the windshield as possible. It covers the part of the rearview mirror that reflects my head. When viewing the map as needed or my steady speed, I still have peripheral vision as to see bright red lights.

My Sat radio is as low and left as it can be. I hardly ever need to look at it because I usually listen to the same station.

Neither device I would classify as a distraction. Not like text messaging or a DVD player.

All of it is for informational purposes only when needed. Plus the damn GPS talks and tells me where to exit or turn. And has some simple voice activeated commands. Consider it my HUD.

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:51 am 
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It seems to me that putting something up that's completely obstructed by the visor oughtn't to be any more illegal than having a visor.

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