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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:54 am 
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Location: Mound, MN
joelr wrote:
It seems to me that putting something up that's completely obstructed by the visor oughtn't to be any more illegal than having a visor.

I couldn't agree more! That was going to be part of my point had it gone to court.

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<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:17 am 
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JD Christian wrote:
...To answer your question, my son goes to a small Christian School. The principal even took it to the board. I have their full support and written permission as long as it is properly concealed.

Good job on getting permission from your children's principal/school. I think there might be one or two more people here that have been succesful in that endeavor. That has got to be scary to bring up with them if you don't know them beforehand.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 am 
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SultanOfBrunei wrote:
JD Christian wrote:
...To answer your question, my son goes to a small Christian School. The principal even took it to the board. I have their full support and written permission as long as it is properly concealed.

Good job on getting permission from your children's principal/school. I think there might be one or two more people here that have been succesful in that endeavor. That has got to be scary to bring up with them if you don't know them beforehand.

Indeed. It was interesting. Much to my surprise my request was not met with complete adversity. The principal was rather receptive to the idea and right off the bat told me it probably wouldn't be a problem. I got permission within 2 days.

Yeah it's a small Christian school, but even still, the usual "guns are evil" stigma did not seem to apply (thank God).

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<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:27 am 
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JD Christian wrote:
joelr wrote:
It seems to me that putting something up that's completely obstructed by the visor oughtn't to be any more illegal than having a visor.

I couldn't agree more! That was going to be part of my point had it gone to court.

I agree.

But I have to be honest that, statutes aside, I think that increasing the size of the visual obstruction that much could be a legitimate problem depending on the driver's stature. I'm not really tall, but I'm tall enough that in most cars I've owned, the mirror can blot out a view of a car to the right in an intersection. More than once, I've just about gone only to discover a car that had rolled up to the right at the same time and been eclipsed behind the mirror. It sounds wierd, I know. Adding that GPS would just make that freak alignment more likely.

Remember a couple phrases from now on:

"I will comply, but I do not consent."

and

"Test cases are for other people."

Don't challenge the statute in the wild if you don't want to pay for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:31 am 
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ree wrote:
Remember a couple phrases from now on:

"I will comply, but I do not consent."

and

"Test cases are for other people."

Don't challenge the statute in the wild if you don't want to pay for it.

Copy.

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:52 am 
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And you will never win trying to educate a cop on the side of the road.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:03 am 
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princewally wrote:
And you will never win trying to educate a cop on the side of the road.
I think it's not quite never, but close. Basically: only if he or she is actively willing to be educated is it possible. Anybody who can spot that after a few seconds is way ahead of me.

The idea, in this sort of thing, is to get the roadside part of it over as quickly and efficiently as possible without either making any admissions or making your and your ticket a priority for the cop, or for the relevant city attorney. There's no reason that I can think of to admit to anything, and as I read somewhere or other, there are places where a police officer's mistakes about facts or law can be corrected, but the side of the road isn't one of them.

In a radar speeding stop, for example, there's lots of mistakes a cop can make that might get the ticket dismissed, but all sorts of ways to "correct" the record before it gets to court. No reason to give anybody the idea that you're going to fight it; let it be a surprise.

Overtime? Maybe. But, maybe, if you time things right, your case will come up when he's busy with other stuff, or doesn't want/need overtime. Make it a low enough priority, and somebody will start doing some math. (The reason that smalltime tickets are such a revenue generating machine for the cities are that very few folks fight them.)

My guess -- and it's just a guess -- is that despite irritating the cop by arguing -- which is what led to the additional citation -- some grownup pointed out to some other grownup how little take there was going to be out of the several hours of OT that the department would have to pay on this, and as long as they didn't encourage other folks to fight their tickets, the best thing was to just drop the matter.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:26 am 
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I did debate with the officer about the "logic" of the law. At no time did I say I would take it to court. That was all on the officer, he felt the need to bring it up, several times.

I asked for the citation on 3 diffrent occasions during this roadside debate. He kept "threatening" to give me a ticket and each time I told him to "go ahead." He never gave it to me. I got it a month later in the mail.

He didn't have to participate in this roadside debate. He chose to. He could have just given me a ticket after his first "threat" to do so and sent me on my way. He wanted to make me feel like an ignorant citizen and him the all knowing police officer. He failed.

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:57 am 
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I normally don't pull people over for suspended objects, precisely because I have several objects between the dash and the headliner. (I know there's an exception for my vehicle)

If I saw your set-up, JD, I'd most likely stop you and issue an "equipment repair order", directing you to make the changes that would result in conformity with state law. You'd certainly be allowed to argue your side of the matter, I just wouldn't participate.

If the changes weren't made and confirmed, you'd receive a citation in the mail.

As to your name not being on the court calendar, you might want to make sure there wasn't some mix-up that has resulted in your license being suspended for non-payment / non-appearance. You can check [url=https://dutchelm.dps.state.mn.us/dvsinfo/mainframepublic.asp[url]HERE[/url]

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:16 pm 
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tman065 wrote:
As to your name not being on the court calendar, you might want to make sure there wasn't some mix-up that has resulted in your license being suspended for non-payment / non-appearance. You can check [url=https://dutchelm.dps.state.mn.us/dvsinfo/mainframepublic.asp[url]HERE[/url]

I checked with the court clerk that day while I was there, and he could find no citation for me under my name and DOB. Also, I had checked the status of my license a week ago, still good! :D

I appreciate the info tman!

One day while I was at Streicher's I was talking to a fellow rider and LEO and asked him if he'd pull me over for my equipment, he replied "If I was bored."

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:27 pm 
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If there is a state issued Uniform Traffic Citation, it is numbered, and I think the state will want to know what happened to it. Stay tuned so you don't wind up with an outstanding arrest warrant.

I also think some cops will hit you with "obstructed vision" (even if it's not)or some similar garbage charge because they don't like your radar/laser detector. Even though the legislature has exhaustively argued the radar detector situation, some cops feel they know better what the law should be in MN.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Is there a site out there where I can look up my citation number? I prefer not to deal with calling the number on the back of the ticket as it usually results in about 15 minutes of waiting to get to some lady working out of her house.

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:50 pm 
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SultanOfBrunei wrote:
For a new guy, you have a lot of stories!
:wink:

I haven't even gotten to my Chanhassen School District story yet! :wink: That one's packed with lies, "cover-ups" and loads of prejudice!

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:58 pm 
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Chaska (212) or Minnetonka (276)? :) This I gotta hear!

JD Christian wrote:
SultanOfBrunei wrote:
For a new guy, you have a lot of stories!
:wink:

I haven't even gotten to my Chanhassen School District story yet! :wink: That one's packed with lies, "cover-ups" and loads of prejudice!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:46 pm 
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Chaska 212

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--JD Christian (Mr. 609.72)
<b>"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."</b> -Thomas Paine
Proud to be one of the 499 permit holders added in October


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