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 Mom says Patriot Act stripped son of due process 
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 Post subject: Mom says Patriot Act stripped son of due process
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:38 am 
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Mom says Patriot Act stripped son of due process

Oxford, N.C. — Sixteen-year-old Ashton Lundeby's bedroom in his mother's Granville County home is nothing, if not patriotic. Images of American flags are everywhere – on the bed, on the floor, on the wall.

But according to the United States government, the tenth-grade home-schooler is being held on a criminal complaint that he made a bomb threat from his home on the night of Feb. 15.

The family was at a church function that night, his mother, Annette Lundeby, said.

"Undoubtedly, they were given false information, or they would not have had 12 agents in my house with a widow and two children and three cats," Lundeby said.

Around 10 p.m. on March 5, Lundeby said, armed FBI agents along with three local law enforcement officers stormed her home looking for her son. They handcuffed him and presented her with a search warrant.

"I was terrified," Lundeby's mother said. "There were guns, and I don't allow guns around my children. I don't believe in guns."

Lundeby told the officers that someone had hacked into her son's IP address and was using it to make crank calls connected through the Internet, making it look like the calls had originated from her home when they did not.

Her argument was ignored, she said. Agents seized a computer, a cell phone, gaming console, routers, bank statements and school records, according to federal search warrants.

"There were no bomb-making materials, not even a blasting cap, not even a wire," Lundeby said.

Ashton now sits in a juvenile facility in South Bend, Ind. His mother has had little access to him since his arrest. She has gone to her state representatives as well as attorneys, seeking assistance, but, she said, there is nothing she can do.

Lundeby said the USA Patriot Act stripped her son of his due process rights.

"We have no rights under the Patriot Act to even defend them, because the Patriot Act basically supersedes the Constitution," she said. "It wasn't intended to drag your barely 16-year-old, 120-pound son out in the middle of the night on a charge that we can't even defend."

Passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the U.S., the Patriot Act allows federal agents to investigate suspected cases of terrorism swiftly to better protect the country. In part, it gives the federal government more latitude to search telephone records, e-mails and other records.

"They're saying that 'We feel this individual is a terrorist or an enemy combatant against the United States, and we're going to suspend all of those due process rights because this person is an enemy of the United States," said Dan Boyce, a defense attorney and former U.S. attorney not connected to the Lundeby case.

Critics of the statute say it threatens the most basic of liberties.

"There's nothing a matter of public record," Boyce said "All those normal rights are just suspended in the air."

In a bi-partisan effort, Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., and Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., last month introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives a bill that would narrow subpoena power in a provision of the Patriot Act, called the National Security Letters, to curb what some consider to be abuse of power by federal law enforcement officers.

Boyce said the Patriot Act was written with good intentions, but he said he believes it has gone too far in some cases. Lundeby's might be one of them, he said.

"It very well could be a case of overreaction, where an agent leaped to certain conclusions or has made certain assumptions about this individual and about how serious the threat really is," Boyce said.

Because a federal judge issued a gag order in the case, the U.S. attorney in Indiana cannot comment on the case, nor can the FBI. The North Carolina Highway Patrol did confirm that officers assisted with the FBI operation at the Lundeby home on March 5.

"Never in my worst nightmare did I ever think that it would be my own government that I would have to protect my children from," Lundeby said. "This is the United States, and I feel like I live in a third world country now."

Lundeby said she does not think this type of case is what the Patriot Act was intended for. Boyce agrees.

"It was to protect the public, but what we need to do is to make sure there are checks and balances to make sure those new laws are not abused," he said.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:28 am 
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I saw this coming years ago, with the passage of that horrendous PoS they call the PATRIOT Act. Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken this long.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:51 am 
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Thought crimes.

How hard is it to sham an IP? What if the Feds transliterated one digit in the IP adress, just two numbers flip flopped?

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:40 am 
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Macx wrote:
Thought crimes.

How hard is it to sham an IP? What if the Feds transliterated one digit in the IP adress, just two numbers flip flopped?


Virus, malware...anything that'd give someone else control. 'Zombie PC' - either pipe a VOIP call through the infected box, or make it make the call.

Windows boxes are easy enough targets, the 'script kiddies' (those that don't know anything about what they're doing, just how to run the script/app) can control those that aren't configured properly, or convince someone to do something dumb, like install random software.

I saw this coming too, back when I read all 350-odd pages of the Patriot Act back in high school. VERY scary document, we need to get RID of it. (Among other things)


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:48 am 
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I've got a good idea for "change"...

Get rid of that damn thing!


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:20 pm 
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mrokern wrote:
I've got a good idea for "change"...

Get rid of that damn thing!


Then the Fox-trash commentators will call them "America haters, who don't want us to be "safe". The American people apparently like this stuff, and believe it won't happen to THEM. It's why I never ever vote for a Republican anymore, no matter what. :evil:


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Dick Unger wrote:
mrokern wrote:
I've got a good idea for "change"...

Get rid of that damn thing!


Then the Fox-trash commentators will call them "America haters, who don't want us to be "safe". The American people apparently like this stuff, and believe it won't happen to THEM. It's why I never ever vote for a Republican anymore, no matter what. :evil:


Because the left doesn't want the power? Because the left-media doesn't believe in peddling panic? Because the left always tells the truth about their motives? Because the left always does what they say? Because the left has a realistic view of the logical and immediate consequences of their actions? Because the left won't try to abuse legislative or executive power just because there's a crisis going to waste?

Shoot, Dick, I don't think I'm understanding you at all.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:33 pm 
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Dick, you get the "trolling up excitable right-wingers" award today... :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:03 pm 
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princewally wrote:
Dick Unger wrote:
mrokern wrote:
I've got a good idea for "change"...

Get rid of that damn thing!


Then the Fox-trash commentators will call them "America haters, who don't want us to be "safe". The American people apparently like this stuff, and believe it won't happen to THEM. It's why I never ever vote for a Republican anymore, no matter what. :evil:


Because the left doesn't want the power? Because the left-media doesn't believe in peddling panic? Because the left always tells the truth about their motives? Because the left always does what they say? Because the left has a realistic view of the logical and immediate consequences of their actions? Because the left won't try to abuse legislative or executive power just because there's a crisis going to waste?

Shoot, Dick, I don't think I'm understanding you at all.


This shit happened under Bush/Cheney. the fact thet the "left" (and many Republicans) were too stupid/intimidated/ineffective to stand up to them is too bad, but I don't have any control over the opposition.

The Bush administration bullied everyone, very effectively, by calling any opposition "Unamerican", and targeting individual dems and even some of their own party. I've got Republican friends who run for office. Privately, they all said they agreed with me. I told them I'd actively support them if they'd basically call Bush and Cheney POS in public. Of course, not one would have the integrety to do that. :x

I really hatre bullys.

So, I vote for the strongest opponent, and let the other issues fall as they may.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:14 pm 
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So, how long are you planning on blaming the world's problems on Bush/Cheney? When do you start blaming Obama/Biden for not rolling back the Patriot Act and undoing every other thing the left hated Bush for?

Now that the abusive laws are in other hands, the left and their pet media have stopped shrieking about how horrible the laws are. Integrity would demand the shrieking get louder now that the promises are being broken.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Respectfully Dick,

Patriot Act aside, keep these names in mind (thinking gun issues):

Clinton, Kerry, Schumer, Fienstien, Pelosi, Kennedy, Obama, HOLDER, Emmanuel, Napolitano, on and on, and on....Some real stalwarts of Liberty there :!:

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:45 pm 
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princewally wrote:
So, how long are you planning on blaming the world's problems on Bush/Cheney? When do you start blaming Obama/Biden for not rolling back the Patriot Act and undoing every other thing the left hated Bush for?

Now that the abusive laws are in other hands, the left and their pet media have stopped shrieking about how horrible the laws are. Integrity would demand the shrieking get louder now that the promises are being broken.


Oh, I intend to vilify Bush until he dies, plus a few years. Cheney, until *I* die. Assholes, both. You don't shit on the Constitution and EVER get my respect back.

I'll also blast the Obama camp for not rolling back this crap, and for any other infringement of my rights they pass.

I'm an equal opportunity cynic.

-Mark


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:23 pm 
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You guys are all frauds. Bush was just the latest in a long, long line to take some of our liberty. Every administration/congress has passed laws that have stripped us of just a little bit more of our liberty under the guise of safety. Claiming Bush did it just makes you sound ignorant and petty.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:01 pm 
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Moby Clarke wrote:
You guys are all frauds. Bush was just the latest in a long, long line to take some of our liberty. Every administration/congress has passed laws that have stripped us of just a little bit more of our liberty under the guise of safety. Claiming Bush did it just makes you sound ignorant and petty.


Clinton did it for sure, along with many others. Bush just wiped his ass with the Bill of Rights by pushing the Unpatriot Act, and for that he gets my special hatred.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:09 pm 
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Moby Clarke wrote:
You guys are all frauds. Bush was just the latest in a long, long line to take some of our liberty. Every administration/congress has passed laws that have stripped us of just a little bit more of our liberty under the guise of safety. Claiming Bush did it just makes you sound ignorant and petty.


Gore would not have crafted the "Patriot Act" or tried to justify torture, or pissed off the whole world. They're all statists, but only Bush did this stuff. And he never believed it himself. He was completely dishonest. Even his father does not support him. Bush Cheney was a real bad thing for this country I won't ever vote for anyone who supported these guys.

It's just so much more egregeous than anyone else's crap.

What did they ever do for us gunnies? Nothing. We put up with 8 years of this for zip. The country has figured this out. Obama was able to easily win as a radical leftist precisely because people wanted to get as far as possible from Bush Cheny. And the country is still happy with this. iMcCain, posing as a moderate, had no chance.

Actually, you can give Bush/Cheney the credit or blame for Obama's election. We couldn't have elected a superliberal without them. :evil:


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