"Oops," he explained. Well, not quite.
Author |
Message |
joelr
|
Post subject: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:15 pm |
|
The Man |
 |
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
 |
adjudicator
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:59 pm |
|
Member |
 |
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:58 am Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis
|
Yep, it's ok as long as no one sees or hears. Feel free to move the body into the position needed and rearrange the crime scene as you see fit to corroborate your "story". 
_________________ Denial and inactivity prepare people well for the roles of victim and corpse. ~ John Leach
|
|
|
|
 |
joelr
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:22 pm |
|
The Man |
 |
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
Well, at least, in this one the guy a: didn't get killed, and b: should make quite a bit of money on the lawsuit.
As I suggested in my comment there, when the non-warrior-type instructors tell folks to avoid holding somebody at gunpoint, we do have reasons.
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
 |
Pat Cannon
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:25 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
 |
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1421 Location: South Minneapolis (East of Lake Nokomis)
|
Wow. Minus several points for Phoenix as a retirement destination.
|
|
|
|
 |
Hunter07
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:07 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
 |
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:53 am Posts: 725 Location: New Ulm area
|
Wow!  That sounds like a nightmare from hell.
_________________ The only downfall to a 1911A1, is actually a plus: You can have it your way, and can put an unreal amount of money into em'.
Squeeze trigger, BANG, repeat. Kind of boring, but I never cared for drama.
|
|
|
|
 |
Timothy Nelson
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:08 pm |
|
Senior Member |
 |
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 2:40 pm Posts: 379 Location: Hopkins
|
Hopefully, he'll end up owning the department alongside a hefty amount of dollars.
_________________ Best,
Timothy
|
|
|
|
 |
Erik_Pakieser
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:06 am |
|
Senior Member |
 |
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:16 am Posts: 364 Location: Minneapolis, MN
|
joelr wrote: As I suggested in my comment there, when the non-warrior-type instructors tell folks to avoid holding somebody at gunpoint, we do have reasons. I teach students, when confronted with a surrendering subject, to say "GET OUT OF HERE, THE POLICE ARE ON THE WAY" and then position themselves so the subject has a clear exit path away from them. I also teach them how to greet the police in a non-threatning manner. In this particular case, the police didn't even see the homeowner's gun before they shot him, so I'm not convinced any of that would make a difference. Overall, a terrible mess.
|
|
|
|
 |
joelr
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:07 am |
|
The Man |
 |
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
It might not have made a difference if the police had been told that the robber was fleeing down the street rather than being held at gunpoint in the house, sure. But there's only so much one can do about Bad Cop Stuff, after all; if, upon being told that a robber is fleeing from a house, the cops enter the house and start shooting people, there's nothing much to be done about it.
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
 |
chunkstyle
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:24 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
 |
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:28 pm Posts: 2362 Location: Uptown Minneapolis
|
Some people just shouldn't be trusted with guns.
_________________ "The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960
"Man has the right to deal with his oppressors by devouring their palpitating hearts." - Jean-Paul Marat
|
|
|
|
 |
Erik_Pakieser
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:36 pm |
|
Senior Member |
 |
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:16 am Posts: 364 Location: Minneapolis, MN
|
About five years ago, I assisted with training an unnamed local SWAT team. Roleplaying in an active shooter scenario, I stood, unarmed, in one corner of a 10x10' room with my gun lying on a table in the opposite corner, well out of reach. As the officer entered, I put my hands up and yelled "Don't shoot, I give up!" he responded by shooting me in the belly with his M4.
|
|
|
|
 |
jdege
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:13 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
 |
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
|
Erik_Pakieser wrote: About five years ago, I assisted with training an unnamed local SWAT team. Roleplaying in an active shooter scenario, I stood, unarmed, in one corner of a 10x10' room with my gun lying on a table in the opposite corner, well out of reach. As the officer entered, I put my hands up and yelled "Don't shoot, I give up!" he responded by shooting me in the belly with his M4. I have absolutely no problem with your scenario. In general, I'm in favor of training scenarios in which cops can screw up and shoot the wrong person. The more cops who make this sort of mistake in training, where no one gets hurt, the fewer who are likely to make this sort of mistake on the street.
_________________ Jeff Dege
|
|
|
|
 |
joelr
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:39 pm |
|
The Man |
 |
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
Yeah, but did the evaluators decide it was a mistake?
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
 |
JonL
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:10 pm |
|
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:27 pm Posts: 179 Location: Plymouth
|
joelr wrote: Yeah, but did the evaluators decide it was a mistake? At first take, flippant. Upon reflection... 
_________________ SETI...because we couldn't find any down here.
|
|
|
|
 |
joelr
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:18 pm |
|
The Man |
 |
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
It wasn't just a cheap shot -- was the response from the trainer "Well, that's a flunk," or "Nice job -- you've gotta make sure you go home that night"? I'd like to think it was the first, but . . .
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
 |
joelr
|
Post subject: Re: "Oops," he explained. Well, not quite. Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:20 pm |
|
The Man |
 |
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
Erik_Pakieser wrote: joelr wrote: As I suggested in my comment there, when the non-warrior-type instructors tell folks to avoid holding somebody at gunpoint, we do have reasons. I teach students, when confronted with a surrendering subject, to say "GET OUT OF HERE, THE POLICE ARE ON THE WAY" and then position themselves so the subject has a clear exit path away from them. I also teach them how to greet the police in a non-threatning manner. Good. Some of the warrior-type instructors spend a lot of time on subjects like How to Hold a Subject at Gunpoint, to the exclusion of Only a Moron Holds a Guy at Gunpoint if He Doesn't Have to, and Here's How Not to Do That Stupid Thing, which, in my considered opinion, is a far more useful skill (and an easier one) for civilian permit holders.
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
 |
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|