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 Died in a heroic struggle ? 
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 Post subject: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:53 am 
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Well lets hear some of your views on this story.
I'm really surprised no one has started a thread on this one.
First off let me send my most heartfelt condolence to his friends and family. However, he had been dispatched to a violation of a restraining order that had been issued for domestic violence. His gun was then taken from his holster and used on him.

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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:17 am 
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I take it you are posting about the deceased (murdered) police officer from North Saint Paul. It is a tragedy. Police, for the most part, do a thankless job day in and day out.

Could this event have been prevented? Probably. Did the officer do anything wrong? Who knows, but the outcome was grim. "Things" happen. He was responding to a domestic dispute call, which are notoriously dangerous due to the unpredictability of all parties concerned.

I, for one, hope that this officer receives the honors and recognition for giving his life in a physical altercation to the same degree as an officer who, in walking back to his cruiser to check plates/license, was shot in the back and killed.


With all due respect.


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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:36 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:01 am 
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I'm going with heroic struggle and selfless service all the way.

Domestics are dangerous. Officers are shot with their guns. It happens to even the good ones.

The CRIMINAL choose his actions. The officer was attempting to subdue him. the CRIMINAL got a hold of the officer's gun and shot the officer in the head.

In a similar situation, I GET to run away. HE HAS to head towards the trouble.

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/58124457.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUac8HEaDiaMDCinchO7DUs

Victims return home worried that perp is waiting in ambush. perp has violent history.
perp charges, armed with a flaming rag, Crittenden pushed victim her daughter into a kitchen and closet area. perp struck Crittenden in the head with the burning rag
Despite his burn, he immediately and continuously battled perp. Space was tight and the two officers scuffled with the perp with little room to maneuver. Perp tried to grab at other cops gun , then got Crittendon's gun and shot him in the head. Other officer shot perp and was herself injured. From start to finish, the incident lasted between 30 seconds and a minute.

I'm going with heroic struggle and selfless service all the way.

The city of North St. Paul has set up a memorial fund for Crittenden. Donations can be made at any Anchor Bank or sent to the North St. Paul branch at 2700 7th Av. E., North St. Paul, MN 55109. Checks should be made to the Richard Crittenden Memorial Fund.

Paul

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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:13 am 
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What level of retention do the holsters that police officers use typically have? Level II at least, right? I was surprised to hear that the perp got his gun out of the holster, espcially after seeing pictures of Officer Crittenden. He did not appear to be a small or weak guy, and he was an experienced officer. What a horrible situation...

That cop is a hero. RIP

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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:38 am 
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Yeah. Heroic. Period.




Other questions involve why the d bag was even on the street after x many parole violations but that was not the officers fault.


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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:22 am 
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Blued Steel wrote:
Yeah. Heroic. Period.




Other questions involve why the d bag was even on the street after x many parole violations but that was not the officers fault.


+111111111111111111111111111 on both accounts.

This state needs to bring back real penalties for violent crime.

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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:39 am 
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+1 to just about everything above.

He died doing the job of an honorable cop, and from those in the carry community who happened to know this officer (and there are some who did), from all accounts, he was just that. A good man, and a good cop.

My prayers and deepest sympathies go out to his family, and to the wounded officer and her family.

Why the scumbag was still on the street is another discussion, and one we could fill a book with at that.

I'm glad that when the moment came the surviving officer had the mindset and the skillset to end it before even more people died. I have no doubt in my mind that had she not taken him down, she would have died, along with the wife and child.

14 shots fired between the two of them, and she scored five hits. That isn't an incident, that is an honest-to-god gun battle.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:48 am 
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sheepdog wrote:
What level of retention do the holsters that police officers use typically have? Level II at least, right? I was surprised to hear that the perp got his gun out of the holster, espcially after seeing pictures of Officer Crittenden. He did not appear to be a small or weak guy, and he was an experienced officer. What a horrible situation...

That cop is a hero. RIP


Most officers that I know have level III retention. I don't know if you've trying getting a gun out of a full-on duty holster, but it's not easy even for the cop without practice.

My guess, and it is only that, a guess...is that he was in the process of removing the gun from the holster and had disengaged at least one of the retention devices when the fight started. Remember that for all the retention training in the world, the suspect threw a burning object (cloth with accelerant) at his head, and that's going to affect anyone's concentration no matter how tough he or she happens to be.

These cops walked into just about as much of a nightmare as was possible in this case. The only thing worse would have been the scumbag waiting behind the door with a gun, rather than a flaming object.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:06 am 
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I just hope, and this may offend some, that the five shots that did connect with the d bag were painful, and that it took him a LOOONNNNNGGGGG time to bleed out, so that he felt some measure of earthly pain before he took that tumble into the fires of Hell.


From the descriptions of the wounds, the wounds Officer Olson received seem to show that had that bullet not deflected from its path by hitting her gun, she very well might have met the same fate as Officer Crittenden. Think about it, the bullet hit the butt of her gun, and deflected, now, where is that weapon when she was firing it? Like most of us when we shoot, probably directly in front of her face.


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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:29 am 
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Blued Steel wrote:
I just hope, and this may offend some, that the five shots that did connect with the d bag were painful, and that it took him a LOOONNNNNGGGGG time to bleed out, so that he felt some measure of earthly pain before he took that tumble into the fires of Hell.


I believe I could subscribe to that premise. A very slow, painful, journey into what I sincerely hope is never, ever, a good night.

Is it proper to speak ill of the dead? Yes, in my opinion, it is more than proper given the character of some of the deceased.


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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:35 am 
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plblark wrote:
I'm going with heroic struggle and selfless service all the way.


My feelings as well. RIP Officer Rick Crittenden. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:47 am 
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I've just had a horrible thought!!!

If it's deemed impropper I'll remove it!

Is there a possibility that after the BG grabbed Crittenden's gun, that the Maplewood officer opened fire and tagged her colleague?

I'm just thinking sideways here, I'm probably wrong!

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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:05 am 
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Selurcspi wrote:
I've just had a horrible thought!!!

If it's deemed impropper I'll remove it!

Is there a possibility that after the BG grabbed Crittenden's gun, that the Maplewood officer opened fire and tagged her colleague?

I'm just thinking sideways here, I'm probably wrong!


While just about all things are possible, I sincerely doubt that your scenario is the case here. Both officers probably did everything by the book (Officer Crittenden did call for backup when he could have gone in on his own) and the situation quickly went down the toilet. I have my own suspicion that the perpetrator was prepared to do anything in his power to cause mayhem, or to harm/kill whomever he could. He probably felt like he had nothing to lose - he was going to jail for an extended period of time in the best case situation.

My only real-life critical decision making is when I hunt grouse. A lot of sophisticated coordinated physical activity has to take place to be able to shoot a grouse rising behind you. I doubt if any LEO training consists of flaming towels or whatever being smacked against heads. The officer was probably overwhelmed by what what happening and lost his concentration. Stuff happens. I wish it didn't, but it does.

My heart goes out to all of the people involved here, with the exception of the perpetrator.

With all due respect, and not to be an affront to the sensibilities of anyone here: If we can heap honors on an officer killed while fall-down drunk (and off-duty), officer Crittenden deserves a monument.


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 Post subject: Re: Died in a heroic struggle ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:06 am 
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I don’t think the thought is improper at all. The possibility of “friendly fire” occurred to me as well. We will probably have to wait for ballistic testing for final resolution.

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