Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:31 am

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Martin County Miscreant Sheriff 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:13 am 
Journeyman Member

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Rochester
jaysong wrote:
wamps wrote:
FWIW I re-upped my permit about a month ago and received the new one in the mail 8 days later. There were more than 60 days before the old one expired. I had the "new" drivers license number too. There were no problems at all for me and nothing was mentioned about "computer" problems. I was treated amicably with respect and courtesy. Very prompt and professional. Olmsted County (Rochester). I feel for you over in Martin County and hope the Sheriff gets with the program... :? This is the first I've heard of any "computer" problems... I agree with Andrew, the Sheriff must follow the law (as we are expected to) and owes it to the public to rectify whatever the problem is-asap.


Out of curiosity, is your permit dated 5 years from your previous permits expiration date as required by MN law?


Yes it is...everything about the renewal process was perfect. Couldn't have went better... :D

_________________
The 2nd Amendment Guarantees the Rest


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:24 am 
Journeyman Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:35 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Shakopee
Lenny7 wrote:
Andrew Rothman wrote:
None of this makes any difference. The sheriffs are OBLIGATED BY LAW to accept your application and issue your permit within thirty days.


The problem with this "law" is that there are no penalties for breaking it (at least none that I can see). When you have a law without penalties, you really have no law. At best it's a strongly worded suggestion.

Kind of like the one about compliant signage and carrying into a property that is appropriately signed. I think we should at least be consistent when we complain.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:11 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
MP9 wrote:
Lenny7 wrote:
Andrew Rothman wrote:
None of this makes any difference. The sheriffs are OBLIGATED BY LAW to accept your application and issue your permit within thirty days.


The problem with this "law" is that there are no penalties for breaking it (at least none that I can see). When you have a law without penalties, you really have no law. At best it's a strongly worded suggestion.

Kind of like the one about compliant signage and carrying into a property that is appropriately signed. I think we should at least be consistent when we complain.


I think you are confused. Carrying into a building that is posted breaks no laws.

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:39 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 1060
Location: Savage, MN
Andrew Rothman wrote:
MP9 wrote:
Lenny7 wrote:
Andrew Rothman wrote:
None of this makes any difference. The sheriffs are OBLIGATED BY LAW to accept your application and issue your permit within thirty days.


The problem with this "law" is that there are no penalties for breaking it (at least none that I can see). When you have a law without penalties, you really have no law. At best it's a strongly worded suggestion.

Kind of like the one about compliant signage and carrying into a property that is appropriately signed. I think we should at least be consistent when we complain.


I think you are confused. Carrying into a building that is posted breaks no laws.


And when you get to the point where you DO break the law (refusing to leave after being notified), then there IS a penalty.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:06 pm 
Journeyman Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:35 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Shakopee
Lenny7 wrote:
And when you get to the point where you DO break the law (refusing to leave after being notified), then there IS a penalty.


But that has nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with trespass.

My point is we tend to complain about people not following the rules/laws (wont accept application outside 30 days) and then turn around and think it's OK to not follow the rules/laws by carrying into a signed building or quibbling about if the sign is "compliant".

I understand the examples are not equitable but they both deal with how things should be done. Obviously I'm too naive to be a lawyer but a little "do onto others..." goes a long way.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:33 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2264
Location: Eden Prairie
MP9 wrote:
Lenny7 wrote:
And when you get to the point where you DO break the law (refusing to leave after being notified), then there IS a penalty.


But that has nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with trespass.

My point is we tend to complain about people not following the rules/laws (wont accept application outside 30 days) and then turn around and think it's OK to not follow the rules/laws by carrying into a signed building or quibbling about if the sign is "compliant".

I understand the examples are not equitable but they both deal with how things should be done. Obviously I'm too naive to be a lawyer but a little "do onto others..." goes a long way.


The sign is not a rule, in any way, shape, form, fashion, etc., and it is certainly not law. It is a sign that a business does not want my money. I don't give one iota of care about the compliant part. Carrying into a signed business breaks no laws and breaks no rules.

A business owner can ask me to leave whether or not they have a sign. The request to leave is the rule / law.

I do try to do unto others. Actually, I try to DON'T unto others, as in I don't give victims-in-waiting any of my hard earned cash if I can help it.

-Mark


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:44 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
MP9 wrote:
But that has nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with trespass.


Except that it's not, at all. Might want to take a minute and read the law. I'm just saying. :)

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:27 pm 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
MP9 wrote:
Lenny7 wrote:
And when you get to the point where you DO break the law (refusing to leave after being notified), then there IS a penalty.


But that has nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with trespass.
Yup. The moment that somebody, having either passed by compliantly posted signs or receives a personal notification, it is -- the moment that they're requested to leave, and refuse to. At that moment -- and not until then -- it has everything to do with a petty misdemeanor trespassing violation. Until then, well, no . . . look it up.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:21 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:20 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Fairmont, Minnesota
I'm going to file my renewal application today, in person. As it happens, the delivery date for my airplane got pushed back a week, so I'm in town. If that hadn't happened, I don't know what I'd have done...

Just to avoid any possibility of his rejecting it for bogus reasons, I printed off and filled out a new application form. The lady at the counter told me that just crossing out the dates and changing them to the date I'd actually apply would be good enough, but that seems like it'd be a good excuse for rejection.

_________________
Jay Maynard, the Tron Guy


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:59 am 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am
Posts: 2444
Location: West Central MN
joelr wrote:
MP9 wrote:
Lenny7 wrote:
And when you get to the point where you DO break the law (refusing to leave after being notified), then there IS a penalty.


But that has nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with trespass.
Yup. The moment that somebody, having either passed by compliantly posted signs or receives a personal notification, it is -- the moment that they're requested to leave, and refuse to. At that moment -- and not until then -- it has everything to do with a petty misdemeanor trespassing violation. Until then, well, no . . . look it up.


The sign doesn't tell you to leave, or even that you are not welcome. It ONLY indicates that the proprietor RESERVES HIS RIGHT to ask you to leave, or not ask you to leave, if you have a firearm.

Remember the old signs:

"MANAGEMENT RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYONE'"?
Time was, half the businesses posted a sign like that that one in reaction to the Civil Rights Laws.

I don't personally like the signs, I always feel as though I'm sort of subject to the whims of somebody whose management decisions are based on emotion or politics rather than reason.

"OWNER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO EXERCISE ANY OF HIS PREJUDICES AGAINST ANYONE"

A generic sign that should cover whatever happens during the day.... :roll:


Last edited by Dick Unger on Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:24 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 5270
Location: Minneapolis
jmaynard wrote:
As it happens, the delivery date for my airplane got pushed back a week, so I'm in town.

Oh, I really can't wait to see what kind of plane The Tron Guy is taking delivery of. Image

_________________
I am defending myself... in favor of that!


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:16 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:20 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Fairmont, Minnesota
DeanC wrote:
Oh, I really can't wait to see what kind of plane The Tron Guy is taking delivery of. Image

It's an AMD Zodiac XLi. The design I chose is intended to leave no doubt in anyone's mind it's the Tron Guy's airplane. It's also quite well equipped.

The original delivery date was today, but got pushed back a week. I'm now going to take delivery at the factory in Eastman, Georgia (about two hours southeast of Atlanta) next Tuesday, and I'm planning on taking a couple of weeks to get it home - there are a lot of folks who I need to show it to on the way.

_________________
Jay Maynard, the Tron Guy


Last edited by jmaynard on Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:19 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:20 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Fairmont, Minnesota
I got the application filed, with a few more roadblocks in the way that had to be overcome:

1) They demanded to see the original of my course completion certificate. Seems the 8 in the 2008 in the completion date was written in an unusual manner, and they wanted to make sure I hadn't altered it...or at least that was the excuse.
2) They tried to charge me $100. I told them that the statutory maximum fee for a renewal was $75, and that the sheriff and I had already had that conversation; they backed down (and when I returned with the original of the course completion certificate, the sheet of fees in the window had been taken down).

The lady at the window also tried to give me a song and dance about the requirements changing, and how it had said 30 days in advance and then changed it to 90; I told her that the law had never been changed in that regard, and had always said 90 days. I also told her that the whole process had left me with a lack of belief in the sheriff's professionalism in this area.

I now have a receipt dated today. They said they'd mail me the permit. It appears that they'd learned that lesson, at least.

_________________
Jay Maynard, the Tron Guy


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:36 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 5270
Location: Minneapolis
Looking over the control panel, jeez, it doesn't look all that complicated.

The big question: Is there enough room to store your costume in it?

_________________
I am defending myself... in favor of that!


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:27 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:20 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Fairmont, Minnesota
DeanC wrote:
Looking over the control panel, jeez, it doesn't look all that complicated.

It's not, but there's enough there to fly IFR with confidence. The airplane is more capable than I am.

Quote:
The big question: Is there enough room to store your costume in it?

Funny you should ask that: The factory shares an airport with the aviation campus of Middle Georgia College. I'll be taking the costume with me, since the students want pictures with me and the airplane. If possible, I'd also like to get an air-to-air picture with me flying the plane, in the costume. All of this means that I'll have two suitcases on the trip home, one for clothes and the like and one for the costume. The Zodiac doesn't have a lot of luggage space, so I'll probably wind up strapping one suitcase into the passenger seat.

_________________
Jay Maynard, the Tron Guy


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group