Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:48 am

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment 
Author Message
 Post subject: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:59 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:41 pm
Posts: 234
Location: Apple-Mount Farming-Ville
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/07/democrats_defeat_concealed_wea.html?hpid=topnews
Quote:
By Paul Kane
By the narrowest of margins, the Senate's liberal bloc of Democrats defeated an amendment that would have allowed gun owners to carry their weapons across state lines without regard for stricter laws in many jurisdictions, giving preference to states with looser standards.

In a 58-39 vote, supporters of the looser gun law -- including all but two Republicans and almost 20 moderate Democrats -- fell two votes short of the 60 they needed to approve the measure. The amendment, sponsored by Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.), showed the bitter divisions among a Democratic caucus that now holds 60 seats, many of whom got to the Senate by winning in conservative states as they proudly supported gun rights. It also divided the party's leadership, as Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (R-Nev.), campaigning for re-election in 2010, sided with gun rights supporters. His top lieutenants, Sens. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), led the push against the measure.

Even in defeat, the debate demonstrated the continued power of the National Rifle Association and gun rights advocates in Congress, because the Thune amendment was considered the most far reaching federal effort ever proposed to expand laws to allow weapons ownership.

Offered as an amendment to the annual defense authorization bill, it would allow people to carry concealed firearms across state lines, provided they "have a valid permit or if, under their state of residence ... are entitled to do so." This means that someone who had a concealed-carry permit for his gun in a state like Vermont -- with some of the loosest gun-control laws in the nation -- could cross over into other states with their guns and not be found guilty of violating those states' tighter gun laws.

"This carefully tailored amendment will ensure that a state's border is not a limit to an individual's fundamental right and will allow law-abiding individuals to travel without complication throughout the 48 states that already permit some form of conceal and carry," Thune said during Wednesdays' sometimes heated debate.

Big-city mayors, such as New York's Michael Bloomberg, led a furious lobbying effort to try to derail the amendment, along with gun-victims groups, such as the families of students killed in the 2007 shootings at Virginia Tech University. Bloomberg, in a letter to Reid, noted that at least 31 states prohibit alcohol abusers from obtaining concealed-carry permits; at least 35 states bar people convicted of certain misdemeanors from becoming gun owners; and at least 31 states require people to complete gun-safety programs before securing a weapons permit.

In a rare instance in which they trumpeted states' rights, Democrats noted that 36 states have specific laws regarding these gun permits and include specific lists of which states' permits they will recognize. "The states already have laws. Under the Thune amendment, those laws could be ignored. So if the Thune amendment becomes law, people who are currently prohibited from carrying concealed guns in those 36 states are free to do so. It is absurd that we are considering this," Durbin, the majority whip, said.

Democrats, who have traditionally championed gun control as a way to reduce crime, are suffering from their own political success of the past two elections. Schumer served as chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee for the 2006 and 2008 election cycles, specifically recruiting supporters of the Second Amendment to run in states where gun ownership is common. Going from 45 seats in the fall of 2006 to 60 seats this summer, Democrats now have about 25 senators who are strong supporters of gun rights.

During the debate, Schumer offered the theoretical example of a gang member in New York City moving to Vermont and establishing residency there, then buying guns and transporting them back to New York.

"The reality of that particular situation is the gang members already have their guns.... The people who need this bill are the ones that the gang members might be threatening," countered Sen. James Webb (D-Va.), a supporter of the Second Amendment whose support from Schumer was crucial to his 2006 victory, which gave Democrats their Senate majority.

Faced with a difficult re-election battle next year in what is regarded as a pro-gun state, Reid told reporters Tuesday he would support the measure but then refused to explain why.

Republicans have already succeeded twice this year in rolling back restrictions on guns with substantial backing from those moderate to conservative Democrats elected in 2006 and 2008. In February, 22 Senate Democrats joined Republicans to stall the District's quest for House voting rights by demanding that the legislation also ease D.C. gun restrictions.

The National Rifle Association called Thune's amendment "important and timely pro-gun reform" and urged a yes vote.

_________________
NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shothell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
Certified Glock Armorer

MNbasecamp.com - Minnesota Outdoors Community


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:30 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:05 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Motherfuckers. I watched it happen live. I'm so fucking mad. I couldn't believe it when I saw the numbers. I could strangle those two who lazed out. Sure there were certainly several Maybe Votes, but among those, two were most likely, by rights, to do the right thing, whoever they are.

On the other hand, I didn't like the precedent it suggested as concerns the rights of States. Of course, looking at it from yet another angle I think that those rights ended a long time ago, and that this might have been at least one good turn to come out of the Big Federal trend. I'm conflicted, and I wonder what comes along next.

RANT COMPLETE...
END TRANSMISSION

_________________
"My name is Shosanna Dreyfus. This is the face of Jewish vengeance."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:40 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 1060
Location: Savage, MN
Quote:
Big-city mayors, such as New York's Michael Bloomberg, led a furious lobbying effort to try to derail the amendment, along with gun-victims groups, such as the families of students killed in the 2007 shootings at Virginia Tech University.


Nice reporting bias there....I have never heard of anyone being a gun victim.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:49 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:00 am
Posts: 1094
Location: Duluth
One Dem Senator stated that he wanted to make sure that one state's laws don't trump another. That's alright with me senator, just remember that when it comes to gay marriage.

_________________
"I wish it to be remembered that I was the last man of my tribe to surrender my rifle" Sitting Bull


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:12 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2264
Location: Eden Prairie
Bear in mind that not all Dems were against this. Lumping all folks from any one party together doesn't accomplish anything for us.

Two Republicans crossed party lines and voted against. By my count, TWENTY Dems crossed party lines and voted in favor.

So quit the party bashing on this one. Facts don't support it.

We need to be blasting the people that voted against, and rewarding those (ESPECIALLY the Dems) who voted for. Training a politician is an awful lot like training a pet. Reward them when they do good, and they come to associate positive results with certain issues.

-Mark


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:19 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:25 pm
Posts: 367
Location: Forest Lake, MN
Here is the coverage from FoxNews.com:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/22/senate-vote-controversial-concealed-weapons-measure/?test=latestnews

One particular part in the article surprised me:

"Concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens during a two-year period ending in April, according to a study by the Violence Policy Center. " :shock:

Seven cops were killed by permit holders in the last two years? Really?

_________________
Pork Chop Sandwiches!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:30 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2264
Location: Eden Prairie
sheepdog wrote:
Here is the coverage from FoxNews.com:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/22/senate-vote-controversial-concealed-weapons-measure/?test=latestnews

One particular part in the article surprised me:

"Concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens during a two-year period ending in April, according to a study by the Violence Policy Center. " :shock:

Seven cops were killed by permit holders in the last two years? Really?


One of the other threads around here has debunked that claim.

http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13648

To put it simply, they are fucking liars.

-Mark


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:41 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 1060
Location: Savage, MN
I just got this from the VPC. Emphasis is mine.

Quote:
To Violence Policy Center Action Network Members:

Thank you!

Earlier today, the U.S. Senate defeated a National Rifle Association-backed
measure sponsored by South Dakota Senator John Thune that would have created a
nationalized concealed handgun permitting system--and your calls helped make the
difference!

Below, please find the press release issued by the VPC following this important
victory.

Click here to see how your Senators voted:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r ... fm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00237

Thank you again for helping make this victory possible.

Sincerely,

Josh Sugarmann
Executive Director


***

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Violence Policy Center Statement on Defeat of Thune Amendment Creating National
Concealed Handgun System

Washington, DC--Following today's Senate vote defeating the Thune Amendment,
which would have created a nationalized concealed handgun permitting system, the
Violence Policy Center issued the following statement by VPC Legislative
Director Kristen Rand:

"Today's Senate vote is a victory for those who support a sane national gun
policy.

"Concealed carry permit holders have already killed police officers, murdered
innocent citizens, and committed mass shootings.


"The Thune Amendment would have nullified laws in states such as New York and
California that have tough standards for the issuance of concealed handgun
permits. Those states would have been forced to allow the carrying of concealed
handguns within their borders by people with permits issued by states with the
lowest standards, such as Idaho and Florida. The amendment would have also
undermined state assault weapons bans because it would have allowed permit
holders to carry concealed assault weapons into the seven states that currently
ban these guns.

"The danger of the Thune amendment is demonstrated by the fact that proponents
of a nationalized concealed carry system argue that lax concealed handgun laws
are the answer to mass shootings, but the hard facts are that concealed handgun
permit holders do not prevent mass shootings, they perpetrate them."


Earlier this week, the VPC released a new study
(http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf) showing that concealed handgun permit
holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31
incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009. Among the study's
findings--

o Over the two-year period May 2007 through April 2009, concealed handgun
permit holders have slain seven law enforcement officers resulting in criminal
charges or the suicide of the shooter. All of the killings were committed with
guns. An additional three law enforcement officers were injured in these
incidents.

o Over the two-year period May 2007 through April 2009, concealed handgun
permit holders have slain at least 44 private citizens resulting in criminal
charges or the suicide of the shooter. All but one of the killings were
committed with guns. An additional six private citizens were injured in these
incidents.

o In six of the 31 incidents (19 percent), the concealed handgun permit holder
killed himself, bringing the total fatality count to 57.

o Five of the incidents were mass shootings resulting in the deaths of 23
victims.

***

The Violence Policy Center is a national educational organization which
lies like mother fuckers to take away your rights.

--END-


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:28 pm 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:13 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Minneapolis
mrokern wrote:
Bear in mind that not all Dems were against this. Lumping all folks from any one party together doesn't accomplish anything for us.

Two Republicans crossed party lines and voted against. By my count, TWENTY Dems crossed party lines and voted in favor.

So quit the party bashing on this one. Facts don't support it.

We need to be blasting the people that voted against, and rewarding those (ESPECIALLY the Dems) who voted for. Training a politician is an awful lot like training a pet. Reward them when they do good, and they come to associate positive results with certain issues.

-Mark


And smack them in the snout with a rolled up newspaper when they screw up! :lol:

_________________
Diesel Boats (and Tube Radios) Forever!


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:31 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:25 pm
Posts: 367
Location: Forest Lake, MN
mrokern wrote:
sheepdog wrote:
Here is the coverage from FoxNews.com:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/22/senate-vote-controversial-concealed-weapons-measure/?test=latestnews

One particular part in the article surprised me:

"Concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens during a two-year period ending in April, according to a study by the Violence Policy Center. " :shock:

Seven cops were killed by permit holders in the last two years? Really?


One of the other threads around here has debunked that claim.

http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13648

To put it simply, they are fucking liars.

-Mark


Thanks, Mark. I had a hunch that was BS. Looking through the thread you linked to above, I checked out the article that Mr. Rothman posted which basically rips that ideological propaganda to shreds. Now Big Media is quoting this shit as facts. This is all very disappointing.

_________________
Pork Chop Sandwiches!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:27 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am
Posts: 1317
Location: Racine, MN
If there ever was any doubt that Franken is anti-gun rights, it is gone now. Amy and Al, what a disgusting pair. Who in the hell votes for these people? Wake up Minnesota! :evil:


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:54 pm 
Member

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:34 am
Posts: 19
Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Barrasso (R-WY), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Begich (D-AK), Yea
Bennet (D-CO), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Brown (D-OH), Nay
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Burris (D-IL), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Not Voting
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Nay
Carper (D-DE), Nay
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
DeMint (R-SC), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Nay
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Nay
Franken (D-MN), Nay
Gillibrand (D-NY), Nay
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagan (D-NC), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johanns (R-NE), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kaufman (D-DE), Nay
Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting
Kerry (D-MA), Nay
Klobuchar (D-MN), Nay
Kohl (D-WI), Nay
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (ID-CT), Nay
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Nay
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Nay
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Nay
Merkley (D-OR), Nay
Mikulski (D-MD), Not Voting
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Risch (R-ID), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shaheen (D-NH), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (D-PA), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Udall (D-CO), Yea
Udall (D-NM), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Nay
Warner (D-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Nay
Wicker (R-MS), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Nay


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:25 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:19 pm
Posts: 333
So Franken steals an election and this is what we get..... Who voted for this fool????


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Democrats Defeat Concealed Weapons Amendment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:06 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2264
Location: Eden Prairie
Eh, even if he'd been a moderate it was going to happen.

No way a new senator bucks the party on his first controversial vote.

Sucks regardless.

-Mark


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Klobe and Franken
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:42 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:50 am
Posts: 125
Will you vote for thier relection?

_________________
"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." Winston Churchill


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group