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I can't shoot my 642
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Author:  lumbering.buffalo [ Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  I can't shoot my 642
I went shooting this evening. I shot my govt model 1911 and my 642. I am not a great shot but I did very well with my 1911 after not shooting it for over a decade.

My primary carry, however, was a disappointment. I shoot my 642 every time I go shooting regardless of what else I bring along. I never seem to get any better. In fact I'm barely hitting COM at 21 feet. I think it's a combination of the grips and the (lack of) sights.

I rented a Kahr PM9 and found I shot that much better than the 642.

It's a shame because I really love that little gun. Unless somebody has some ideas to help my shooting I may have to face facts that it's not for me.

[Edited to Add] I'm not sure about the COM comment. I had an 8-inch self-adhesive target on top of a 12" x 12" target. One handed I rarely hit the 8-inch target. Two handed I was better, but not as good as by 1911 or the Kahr. People will ask "so why are you carrying it?" Well the first rule is have a gun. This gun rates very low on the "it's a hassle" factor so it gets carried. I just thought I would improve over time. It just doesn't seem to be the case with its current configuration.
Author:  hypertech [ Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm used to autos so the grip on the revolver takes some getting used to.

You ought to be able to hit COM at 21 feet, but the 642 really isn't a target gun. I think you get pretty good sized groups no matter what.
Author:  plblark [ Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've never taken 1 on 1 instruction from DonL but Joel speaks highly of his one on one. I can vouch for his instruction style. He's easy going and notices things. Perhaps setting up some time at BPR with DonL would help?
Author:  glock+ipod [ Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I can't shoot my 642
lumbering.buffalo wrote:
My primary carry, however, was a disappointment. I shoot my 642 every time I go shooting regardless of what else I bring along. I never seem to get any better. In fact I'm barely hitting COM at 21 feet. I think it's a combination of the grips and the (lack of) sights.


Were you were in lane 20 at Bill's South around 7PM? If so, I think you were doing alright with that 642. I was in lane 19.
Author:  KonaSeven [ Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am assuming your perceived difficulty is erratic patterns resulting from a heavy DA pull on a light gun. When I first started practicing with my snub-nosed revolver, I was used to my 5" barrel, double stacked .45 Semi-Auto. I was quite dismayed at my performance with the snubbie. However, I did find, through dry firing, that I could not maintain a steady grip while pulling the heavy trigger on the small grip-frame.
I was able to substantially reduce this effect by doing 70% or more of the gripping with my support hand. (A recommendation for a good grip on any gun in some books) My dominant hand was basically crushed onto the grip by the support hand. My trigger finger movement then had far less effect on the tendons in my other fingers with this grip.
It may not make a flippin' bit of difference but it helped me. :D
Author:  DeanC [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Those trigger pulls on the 642's are brutal. I hate to admit it, but my Taurus 85 had a much better out of the box DA trigger than the S&W 642.

Dry fire it often. Put 1000 rounds through it. Then see how it goes.

You might also consider mounting CT Lasergrips on it for dry fire practice. It will really help your trigger control.
Author:  westhope [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
One of the last IDPA BUG matches I ran at the Faribo club consisted of 5 rounds at one target at 15 yards (45 feet) from a freestyle standing position. Two of us shot 642's. I shot 2 rounds inside the "0" zone the other 2 inside the "1" and one inside the "3" zone. The other 642 shooter did a little better. None of his in the "3" zone. All shots under the pressure of the timer. Several others shot revolvers DAO only. (Pat Cannon SP 101).

I like to occasionally run stages that a shooter may encounter but never practice with a BUG gun.

Get a trigger job done. It cleans up the trigger nicely for a DAO. I had mine done by Leo Dwyer (drop your gun off at J&S in Lakeville if you want). Probably $50 to $75. He hones the sear edges, changes springs and cleans all the chips left in from manufacturing. He has done at least 3 S&W revolvers for me. (He also runs the regular IDPA matches.)

I assume you are using the smaller grips. You can also get a larger grip (one came on my S&W 317 22LR but I switched it to the smaller boot size like I have on my other 2 J frames).
Author:  lumbering.buffalo [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I can't shoot my 642
glock+ipod wrote:
Were you were in lane 20 at Bill's South around 7PM? If so, I think you were doing alright with that 642. I was in lane 19.


That was me. You thought I was doing ok, huh? Next time I'll need an observer.

BTW, it was very nice of you to help those two guys on 18 with the Sig(?) who could seem to hit their target.
Author:  meltedeyes [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:10 am ]
Post subject: 
I took a class with DonL, and heartily recommend it. If there's something you are doing wrong or could do better I'm sure hell spot it.
Author:  mo_the_mouse [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
642 + Trigger Job = BUG Love!!!
Author:  joelr [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm going to take a slightly different tack here; free country. Seems to me that if the 642 isn't pointing well for you instinctively, it's best to change grips so that it does point well than to try to train your way out of it. I'm in favor of training, mind you -- but, by and large, I'm in favor of training to, if possible, tweak what's naturally there, rather than change it dramatically.

That said, a trigger job -- and probably lighter Wolff springs -- would probably be a good addition.
Author:  ree [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
joelr wrote:
I'm going to take a slightly different tack here; free country. Seems to me that if the 642 isn't pointing well for you instinctively, it's best to change grips so that it does point well than to try to train your way out of it. I'm in favor of training, mind you -- but, by and large, I'm in favor of training to, if possible, tweak what's naturally there, rather than change it dramatically.


I have to second the grip idea (and of course all the dry fire suggestions)

Not only might it not be pointing properly, but it might be too big or small in your hands such that you could be having trouble securely holding the gun as it fires.

More likely, you'll find the trigger finger pull affecting the point of aim and a different grip might lessen this effect. Couple this with a trigger job and lighter springs and you'll definitely be in a better position to train yourself out of the problem.

Also next time out at the range do what KonaSeven suggests. My biggest challenge in shooting consistently is the pull of my trigger finger affecting point of aim, particularly on long DA/DAO pulls on smaller guns. I've been experimenting with altering the way I grip the gun as KonaSeven suggests and it's making a big difference.
Author:  westhope [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
joelr wrote:

Quote:
if the 642 isn't pointing well for you instinctively


Absolutely!

How does the 642 shoot instinctively for you? Shoot at the target looking over the sights, not using them. Any defensive handgun should first be reliable, then point shoot well for you, in my opinion.

The advantage of a revolver over a semi-auto is that they can more easily be made to shoot well for different shooters just by changing the grips.

For me, 1911's just feel good in my hand and shoot instinctively for me better than any other handgun. I carry a 642 because of the reliability and ease of pocket carry. It shoots instinctively for me "OK" but not as good as a 1911. If my 4" 1911 would fit in my jeans pocket and it didn't catch on the pocket when drawn, that would be my choice. (I would like to try a Kahr PM9 for pocket carry for a period of time to determine how that works and points for me. Excuse to buy another gun?)
Author:  glock+ipod [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I can't shoot my 642
lumbering.buffalo wrote:
glock+ipod wrote:
Were you were in lane 20 at Bill's South around 7PM? If so, I think you were doing alright with that 642. I was in lane 19.


That was me. You thought I was doing ok, huh? Next time I'll need an observer.

BTW, it was very nice of you to help those two guys on 18 with the Sig(?) who could seem to hit their target.


Well, you didn't point it at me while setting it on the bench, and most of the shots seemed to be on the paper. I'm not much of a shot with my J-Frame, myself.

Thanks. Yeah, they started shooting significantly tighter groups once they had a more orthodox grip and stance.
Author:  hammAR [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
IMHO - If you are not 100% confident with it, park it................
if/when you need to use it that little doubt and lack of confidence can well mean the difference between ending up horizontal or vertical.............
again just my ever so humble opinion.... :wink:

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