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 Taking a run at the orthodoxy: Maybe semi-autos are OK 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:41 pm 
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What this thread is really about is the answer to the question "What should I, as a defense instructor/firearms aficionado/gun nut (circle one) recommend as a weapon to my defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student who does not care any more deeply about guns than I do about, say, the finer points of Dahlia propagation?" Most people on the forum have a personal interest in firearms that leads them to make choices that are perfectly fine for them but out of place for the beginner or the person who only cares about defense.

As I stated in the opening post, the conventional wisdom has been a revolver, either a 2" snubby .38 for concealment, or a 4" or 6" .357 behind the counter in a store. I'm challenging that conventional wisdom, as noted.

What gun those of us who have twenty of them like best has nothing to do with this.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:04 am 
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MostlyHarmless wrote:
What this thread is really about is the answer to the question "What should I, as a defense instructor/firearms aficionado/gun nut (circle one) recommend as a weapon to my defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student who does not care any more deeply about guns than I do about, say, the finer points of Dahlia propagation?" Most people on the forum have a personal interest in firearms that leads them to make choices that are perfectly fine for them but out of place for the beginner or the person who only cares about defense.

As I stated in the opening post, the conventional wisdom has been a revolver, either a 2" snubby .38 for concealment, or a 4" or 6" .357 behind the counter in a store. I'm challenging that conventional wisdom, as noted.

What gun those of us who have twenty of them like best has nothing to do with this.

True. But what Ramoel said, makes a lot of sense and holds water.
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You can argue technical details all day long but what really counts is how well you can shoot what you choose to carry.

To your "defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student", insist that they spend the time to find the type weapon that works for them........whether it be a revolver or auto.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:09 am 
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Hunter07 wrote:
To your "defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student", insist that they spend the time to find the type weapon that works for them........whether it be a revolver or auto.


I don't think that's a useful or fair answer to give them. They expect reasonable guidance, as they should. Not everyone has the time, inclination, or mindset to try half a dozen guns, nor is it necessary to try half a dozen guns in order to be safe and effective. Further, that's not what's happening today. Most instructors recommend that people who are unfamiliar with guns get a 2" snubbie for carry.

The approach I'm advocating is that, as leaders in the carry movement, we instead recommend "here, try this" with a suitable modern automatic. In most cases that will work. If it doesn't (hand size, can't pull the slide back, points wrong), then try something else.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:58 am 
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MostlyHarmless wrote:
What this thread is really about is the answer to the question "What should I, as a defense instructor/firearms aficionado/gun nut (circle one) recommend as a weapon to my defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student who does not care any more deeply about guns than I do about, say, the finer points of Dahlia propagation?" Most people on the forum have a personal interest in firearms that leads them to make choices that are perfectly fine for them but out of place for the beginner or the person who only cares about defense.

As I stated in the opening post, the conventional wisdom has been a revolver, either a 2" snubby .38 for concealment, or a 4" or 6" .357 behind the counter in a store. I'm challenging that conventional wisdom, as noted.

What gun those of us who have twenty of them like best has nothing to do with this.



I think you answered your own question. If said person is not inclined to "work" with their firearm, then the answer is easy, revolver. There is too much that can go wrong with an auto, even today's versions, if someone is simply going to stick the pistol in a purse or a holster every day, but never take it out until "that one time". Further, most, meaning at least 99% of all those "times" just showing the gun gets it done.

Now, if you have someone who starts out not willing to "work" with their firearm and they change their mind later, then you can move onto autos. But if they are of the mindset not to become experienced with their firearm, and there are many who are going to be like this whether we all like it or not, the revolver is the only way to go.


Edited to add: My reasoning is that if their is a malfunction, the user is not going to have any idea about what to do next, other than pull the trigger again. With revolvers, this is exactly what they should do. With autos, there is a whole manual of what they must do. Again, without practice, a jam becomes a death sentence.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:03 am 
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Moby Clarke wrote:
If said person is not inclined to "work" with their firearm, then the answer is easy, revolver.

Well, my personal preference for self defense is a well-armed and well-trained fire team in overwatch position, preferably with fire and air support on-call.

I mean, the choice between .38 special and 9mm parabellum seems somewhat pointless, when you've got guys up on the hill with sniper rifles, machineguns, and laser designators.

But, I'm afraid, arranging for that isn't always practical.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:43 am 
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I generally agree, jdege, though I have a preference for naval gunfire support... :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa-Class_Battleship

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Jeremiah wrote:
I generally agree, jdege, though I have a preference for naval gunfire support... :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa-Class_Battleship


Nothing in this world quite like a 16" shell! :lol:
It's too bad the Iowa's are decommisioned. We might need to use them (again) on North Korea in the future.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:41 pm 
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MostlyHarmless wrote:
...[*] Revolvers are harder to conceal because of the cylinder bulge. The extent to which this is a problem depends upon gender, body shape, and style of dress but it is indeed a real problem, at least for some people in some situations.


Is that really a draw back? Imagine how studly you would look Mexican carrying this revolver! :lol:

Middle gun...Dragoon revolver in 45-70 by Firearm Specialties

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:10 pm 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
Is that really a draw back? Imagine how studly you would look Mexican carrying this revolver! :lol:

Can you see yourself attending the Renaissance Festival carrying this?

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:41 pm 
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joelr wrote:
More later, perhaps, but for now: I'm very much enjoying this discussion. FWIW.


:: BUMP ::

Just because you linked to your B2C class web page from another thread.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:39 pm 
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Jeremiah wrote:
I generally agree, jdege, though I have a preference for naval gunfire support... :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa-Class_Battleship


Hmmm, "when no lesser force will serve" may be a sticking point for self-defense here. :lol:

Unless I'm attacked by the entire Taliban at once. Hey, it could happen! It's not like the CIA has found them yet!


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:12 pm 
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mrokern wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:
I generally agree, jdege, though I have a preference for naval gunfire support... :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa-Class_Battleship


Hmmm, "when no lesser force will serve" may be a sticking point for self-defense here. :lol:

Unless I'm attacked by the entire Taliban at once. Hey, it could happen! It's not like the CIA has found them yet!


They DO keep telling us we've got all those terrorists here in our own country!


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:45 pm 
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MostlyHarmless wrote:
What this thread is really about is the answer to the question "What should I, as a defense instructor/firearms aficionado/gun nut (circle one) recommend as a weapon to my defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student who does not care any more deeply about guns than I do about, say, the finer points of Dahlia propagation?" Most people on the forum have a personal interest in firearms that leads them to make choices that are perfectly fine for them but out of place for the beginner or the person who only cares about defense.

As I stated in the opening post, the conventional wisdom has been a revolver, either a 2" snubby .38 for concealment, or a 4" or 6" .357 behind the counter in a store. I'm challenging that conventional wisdom, as noted.

What gun those of us who have twenty of them like best has nothing to do with this.


While I'm a fan of the semi-auto, specifically Browning design SA semi-autos. I would have to agree that for the total novice who does not plan on spending the time to familiarize themselves with the gun, a revolver is probably the recommendation I would make, Revolvers are simply...simple to use.

ScottM wrote:
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I really like my 1911 for carry but am thinking about getting a XD9 for the capacity

>unsolicited promotion< Para Ordnance has a great selection of hi capacity 1911 pistols. You can have the 1911 that you like and the capacity you want.

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