I know I'm treading on sacred ground here so before this turns into a Taurus trashing free for all, let me explain.

I am trying to decide on a long term carry strategy. I'm not real interested in building a gun collection. My true passion in life is walleye fishing and I have several rod and reel combos that cost more than a new M&P 40. I have always liked the idea of owning 2 identical guns for carry. One to shoot the bejeesus out of, say a couple of thousand rounds per year and a matching gun for carry that maybe sees 500 rounds for break-in and then maybe a 100 or so rounds of SD ammo per year.

I've narrowed my choice down to the Taurus 24/7 40 and the S&W M&P 40.
I have a 24/7 now and I am very happy with this gun. The M&P is generally priced about $125 to$150 more than the 24/7. What makes the S&W that much better? That would be a 2 gun investment difference of $250 to$300. (The price of a new fishing rod) What I do know is that Taurus customer service is probably the worst in the industry. But if I have 2 of the same at least I won't be without a carry gun while Taurus loses mine for 6 months.

So here it is: Nuts and bolts. Is the S&W built that much better than the Taurus? Better materials, better workmanship, etc. Or is it Customer service where the difference comes in. If it is only customer service it would seem to me that I really paying $300 more for what amounts to a service contract.

I like S&Ws better than Tauruses, but I don't think there's any serious difference in bottom-line quality. (There was a time when Taurus semiautos were, I think, definitely inferior, but that time's past.)

On the other hand, assume that you're going to be carrying the gun for, say, ten years or more. What's a difference of at most a couple of hundred dollars really mean over that time span?

I believe S&W's quality control is better than Taurus's. Some of the extra cash for the S&W is due to the name, but some is due to better spec'd, built, and put together parts. You've got a much better chance getting a S&W that's great out of the box while with a Taurus you're hit and miss. I think most people probably don't even realize the little things that are given up but they are there. For example, in the revolver line, you want a pretty tight gap between the cylinder and forcing cone of the barrel so that pressure doesn't overly escape through that space instead of following the bullet out. The larger gap causes loss in velocity. My understanding is that Taurus allows its spec to be as high as .007". Minimum recommended when fine tuning a revolver is .002", and most S&W and other higher end revolvers will come off the shelf at .004 to .005. Again, your average gun buyer probably isn't going to notice this but it does make a difference. Attention to detail is worth the extra couple hundred bucks when that detail is functional and your life is on the line.

When Taurus was owned by S&W, they made guns of exceptional quality. After the dissolution of the joint venture, Taurus fell precipitously and was some what seen as the one step from the RG and erma saturday night special pot metal guns. They have worked very hard to bring quality back up. Metalurgically, I think they are the same, or very near so, S&W has a higher general standard level of fit and finish than what Taurus specs.

You state you want to have two guns, one to shoot a couple thousand times a year, and another to use for carry, With S&W talking about 50K rounds BMF, I think your shooting schedule could be raised significantly and without needing a second gun. (mind you I am a full believer in second guns,) I think with most guns, if you change the springs as needed, going 5K a year will yield a ten year carry life with no problem.

I have a few guns that are way WAY over this level, and with proper maintenance are still active reliable shooters.

Its like thinking a 870 is worn out at 30K rounds, for most that is the break in period.

I have no problem carrying as daily carry a gun with close to 100K rounds thru it. It has a new firing pin, pin stop, all springs, and a slide stop,link and pin, but the rest is stock. I think total cost for all the parts was under 50 dollars, maybe a hair more.

i'm a bit nervous posting like this but i've thought on it for 24 hours so here goes.
i've owned a taurus pt-140 for about 3 years now. it has never failed me at any time in any way. it is very concealable (sp?) and very consistent in accuracy. it is somewhat snappy on recoil, partly to the .40 cal and also to its size and weight. it was my cc gun until my wife went with me to the range and she shot it (her ccw was a walther ppk/s). she liked it so much she has "taken" it s her ccw.
i bought a s&w m&p .40c in june. it is very, very consistent in accuracy and only slightly larger than the pt-140 so it is also very concealable (sp?). the trigger was a little rough at first but as smoothed out over time. the recoil is much better than the pt-140. it was flawless for about the first 400 rounds. while at phorvick and farmerj's defensive shooting class the .40c started dropping its magazine, not completely out but dropping down enough so that the gun would not cycle. at first it was seldom but it got worse as the day went on, so much so that it happened 6 times in the fbi drill test. at first i thought i might have accidentally hit the mag release but after making sure i hadn't and even changing my grip, i was convinced it was the gun.
later i searched the m&p pistol website and found out dropping mags was not a rare event for m&p owners (more so for the compacts than the full size though). i have received a new/different mag catch to replace the one i have in the gun now. i have not done so but plan to before i go to the steel shoot next weekend. from what i got from the website, this has fixed the problem for some but not for others. i guess i'll find out for myself.
truth be told, i like the smith a bit better when it was functioning properly yet i don't think i will be carrying it again until i put another 1000 flawless round through it. right now, i believe the pt-140 is the better gun simply because it has my confidence to not fail me when i might need it.
it is my understanding the 24/7 has the same reliability and quality as the pt series. so goes my input based on my recent experience(s).

This is really good information.

Take a look at my PT111 next time we're in the same room. I can't find a thing to criticize.

so did you get one of the good ones?

I own a PT1911 and love it. It shoots well. There have been spotty reports about quality and fit and finish though.

This is a good example. Sounds like Andrew got himself one of the good ones, but if you google this model, you'll find owners reporting FTFeeds, FTEs, stove pipes, failures to go into battery, failures of the slide to lock back, frame cracking, pins breaking, etc. There were also apparently some who experienced the recoil spring working its way out of the front of the slide on both new and old guns. Reports are that Taurus has a new recoil spring design which incorporates a washer to the front of the spring guide rod assembly.

Somebody above pointed out that there's a known magazine drop problem with some of the S&W 40s as well. Bottomline is that there are a few lemons everywhere. In addition, sometimes a particular design just has a problem. The question is whether those lemons and problems are syptomatic of the company's entire attention to detail in its design and manufacture, or if they are truly just a few lemons and problems that will be eliminated by the company's improvements shortly after they are discovered.

(Pblark, I think Andrew meant PT111, not PT1911.)

yeah, but I don't own one of those so cannot comment. You made the comment I was thinking though, thanks.

As I understand it, the first generation Tauruses PT111s had some quality control issues. Of course, so did the first generation Glock 17s.

I've had an M&P 9c since last year and had the issue with the mag catch not holding the mag, which became progressively worse from 400 rds to the 1100 rd mark. Just had the mag catch replaced, but haven't had a chance to go shoot it again. According to some on the M&P forums a version 2.0 of the mag catch is in the works. Hope this solves the issue, but in the meantime it cannot be carried, and the Beretta is what comes with me. Other folks with newer M&Ps have not had this issue. If my memory serves me correctly, the mag drop was not as much of a problem in the full size as it was in the compact, and people on the M&P forum love their 40 full size guns.

I've no experience with any Taurus, but if it runs steadily past 1K rounds with no hiccups, then its a winner.

The net includes reports of these issues beyond first generation.