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 40 S&W 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:53 pm 
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Pinnacle,

Not to criticize, but you are making some accusations about 9mm that I have not heard before. Can you supply some data, pictures, publicly accessible tests that prove 9mm is the great overpenatrator that you are claiming?

I changed to the 9mm platform after reading everything I could find and all that info lead me to believe that 9mm will expand enough, penetrate enough and offer the least potential to produce a through and through than anything of greater diameter while still retaining the chance to be a good man stopper. Therefore, I am very curious about your claims.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:34 am 
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What is better for carry loads lighter or more heavy, I use Federal 180 Hydra-Shok JHP. P40HS1. What would be the reason for going to a ligher round?? Is it because having ligher bullet has higer ft pounds closer in??


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:56 am 
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Fascinating. I'm talking as we speak to a fellow who had been 12 times in an attempted carjacking. Twelve entrance wounds; seven exit wounds. Legs, shoulder, hip. And he's chatting with me, though he's not terribly mobile. He was fortunate in that none of the shots hit COM.

I told him I'll go in on the Power Ball with him this week. Maybe some of his luck will rub off on me.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:08 am 
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Moby Clarke wrote:
Pinnacle,

Not to criticize, but you are making some accusations about 9mm that I have not heard before. Can you supply some data, pictures, publicly accessible tests that prove 9mm is the great overpenatrator that you are claiming?

I changed to the 9mm platform after reading everything I could find and all that info lead me to believe that 9mm will expand enough, penetrate enough and offer the least potential to produce a through and through than anything of greater diameter while still retaining the chance to be a good man stopper. Therefore, I am very curious about your claims.


Well

Lets look at it this way - 9mm with a good HP at a good velocity - 1100-1200 fps is a good choice -There are no problems with it. The 9mm 124 Gr. NATO load will pentrate like a madman at full velocity - that is what it is designed to do

The Winchester RA9TA Ranger 127+p+ is cooking out of my G17C at 1325 FPS - now that is fast - it will pass through a NIJ2 Poly Vest like butter - and then expand in tissue simulating media and create an exit wound like you have never seen before - This is a test that I have done myself over and over again with this round with the predictable result of Complete Penetration.

The Vest and media combo approximate human flesh well - it is the NIJ Standard 0101.04 at 72 degrees F ambient and 0 Degree Obliquity from target at 15 feet - DRY.

Quite frankly I have been shocked by the performance of the 9mm in the past - but never like this - this particular round is perhaps the best - most effective round for the 9mm - DEEP Penetration and assured expansion - but the thing is that this round will keep on truckin through the target - no matter what it hits within the body - this is a NASTY round.

Target and beyond is all that I am saying. Just something to keep in mind.

If you would like to see proof of the 9mm and its ability to eat a target up completely - come on over - I have some blocks of Plastolina that should make a beleiver out of you. They did me when I did the test.

A 9mm FMJ is nothing to sneeze at - trust me on that one. You get one of those little pills going about 1150-1200 - and you have hell on your hands - 9mm SUBSONIC 147's penetrate a lot of material as well - they tend to not open up at slow speeds - it takes velocity to make a bullet want to open up. The slower they go - the more they tend to hold together and penetrate - this goes for soft tissue.

We can shoot a test sometime to show you - go make some gelatin and I will bring some vest panels to prove to you Mo that the 9mm is a very serious caliber to contend with.

Remember also - I deal with Armor - I tend to treat this as a whole other thing - you penetrate armor - you have my attention.......


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:15 pm 
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Hits mean more than anything else.

My normal carry guns are 9mm or lower but if the SHTF I would use my 40s&w handgun in full size for 15 +1 rounds.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:08 am 
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Srigs wrote:
...if the SHTF I would use my 40s&w handgun in full size for 15 +1 rounds.

If the S really is hitting the F, I'm thinking 20+1 of Sierra Game Kings in .308. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Srigs wrote:
Hits mean more than anything else.

My normal carry guns are 9mm or lower but if the SHTF I would use my 40s&w handgun in full size for 15 +1 rounds.


You should come shooting with me sometime. Hits are ALL That matters.

If the SHTF - I am going to Uncle Bernies house.....


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:55 pm 
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Pinnacle wrote:
Srigs wrote:
Hits mean more than anything else.

My normal carry guns are 9mm or lower but if the SHTF I would use my 40s&w handgun in full size for 15 +1 rounds.


You should come shooting with me sometime. Hits are ALL That matters.

If the SHTF - I am going to Uncle Bernies house.....


If the defecation hits the oscillation, I will be at the cabin with rifles. And friends. With rifles.

:wink:


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:28 pm 
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goalie wrote:
Pinnacle wrote:
Srigs wrote:
Hits mean more than anything else.

My normal carry guns are 9mm or lower but if the SHTF I would use my 40s&w handgun in full size for 15 +1 rounds.


You should come shooting with me sometime. Hits are ALL That matters.

If the SHTF - I am going to Uncle Bernies house.....


If the defecation hits the oscillation, I will be at the cabin with rifles. And friends. With rifles.

:wink:


Notes to self:
1) Improve rifle skills
2) Buy beer for goalie

:)

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:44 pm 
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I like my stop at uncle bernies a little better..... He has beer and Tequilla....

AND BULLETS>>>> :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:03 pm 
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goalie wrote:
Pinnacle wrote:
Srigs wrote:
Hits mean more than anything else.

My normal carry guns are 9mm or lower but if the SHTF I would use my 40s&w handgun in full size for 15 +1 rounds.


You should come shooting with me sometime. Hits are ALL That matters.

If the SHTF - I am going to Uncle Bernies house.....


If the defecation hits the oscillation, I will be at the cabin with rifles. And friends. With rifles.

:wink:


If the admission requirement is a rifle, I'm in :) Just need the map to the cabin :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:09 am 
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Pinnacle wrote:
Lets look at it this way - 9mm with a good HP at a good velocity - 1100-1200 fps is a good choice -There are no problems with it. The 9mm 124 Gr. NATO load will pentrate like a madman at full velocity - that is what it is designed to do


Just what is the NATO load and why doesn't it appear in any loading manuals? Speer #13 shows the hottest 124gr load of 8.9gr HS-7 @ 1249fps, with a SAAMI max of 35,000 PSI.

Doing some Googling (do you capitalize it when you make a verb out of it?) on the subject reveals some conflict as to whether it's a really a "hot" load or not.

This thread from rec.guns has some interesting information backed by citations and would indicate that the idea of a "NATO load" that somehow much hotter than SAAMI specs for 9mm doesn't really exist.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:24 am 
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mobocracy wrote:
Pinnacle wrote:
Lets look at it this way - 9mm with a good HP at a good velocity - 1100-1200 fps is a good choice -There are no problems with it. The 9mm 124 Gr. NATO load will pentrate like a madman at full velocity - that is what it is designed to do


Just what is the NATO load and why doesn't it appear in any loading manuals? Speer #13 shows the hottest 124gr load of 8.9gr HS-7 @ 1249fps, with a SAAMI max of 35,000 PSI.

Doing some Googling (do you capitalize it when you make a verb out of it?) on the subject reveals some conflict as to whether it's a really a "hot" load or not.

This thread from rec.guns has some interesting information backed by citations and would indicate that the idea of a "NATO load" that somehow much hotter than SAAMI specs for 9mm doesn't really exist.


The Eglish 9mm from Radway Greene, would typically make major (175) power factor out of a standard Browning HP. It was designed for the sterling and was "exciting" to shoot in the HP.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:04 pm 
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Yeah - really hot 9mm gets interesting. Lots of potential there.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:24 pm 
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Pinnacle wrote:
Yeah - really hot 9mm gets interesting. Lots of potential there.


I don't doubt it is possible to load up a mega 9mm that runs like a .44 Mag, but I also don't doubt that it'll blow up most guns because its over pressure specs.

And hasn't the "really hot 9mm" need been satisfied with the .357SIG, which easily makes major power factor without exceeding pressure specs?


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