Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive
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9mm suggestions?
http://ellegon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3270		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  cobb [ Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Maybe a little off, but I would like to expand on this quote -
Quote:
That is about as good as it gets

What is even better is 100% reliable in your weapon.

100% reliably of feeding, firing and complete cycling of your carry weapon with your carry ammunition, then expected bullet performance is as best as it can get.

I always ask my students if they know what the 2 loudest noises in the world are.
A bang if you are expecting a click and a click if you are expecting a bang. :wink:

I believe that bullet performance is not at the top of the list. More important is that the ammunition has to work in your weapon first, you have to hit your target effectively is second, and them debate if the bullet performance was what was expected and made a difference. 8)

But what do I know? I am still surprised at the amount of hydro shock damage done on a deer shot with factory Whelen ammunition, it was worse than a shot from a 270.
Author:  goalie [ Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
cobb wrote:
Maybe a little off, but I would like to expand on this quote -
Quote:
That is about as good as it gets

What is even better is 100% reliable in your weapon.

100% reliably of feeding, firing and complete cycling of your carry weapon with your carry ammunition, then expected bullet performance is as best as it can get.

I always ask my students if they know what the 2 loudest noises in the world are.
A bang if you are expecting a click and a click if you are expecting a bang. :wink:

I believe that bullet performance is not at the top of the list. More important is that the ammunition has to work in your weapon first, you have to hit your target effectively is second, and them debate if the bullet performance was what was expected and made a difference. 8)

But what do I know? I am still surprised at the amount of hydro shock damage done on a deer shot with factory Whelen ammunition, it was worse than a shot from a 270.


Not to speak for Pinnacle, but I am quite certain that he, like myself, would never even consider ammo that didn't run in the gun flawlessly for at least several hundred rounds. Heck, nobody should.

You might as well go one further and say that having a gun is more important than the ammo.......

:wink:
Author:  MNXD9 [ Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pinnacle wrote:
I have been shooting and carrying Winchester RA9TA's for some time

127 +P+ at 1350fps from my G17...

That is about as good as it gets.

Wow that really seems to pack some punch :shock:

I picked up some of the 115 +p corbon last night at Gander mountain, they only had 40 rounds, so I'm going to try those out in the gun, seems a few people on xdtalk have used them with no problems, overall I've heard of only a few ammo issues with an XD nearly evey one is from limp wristing it or some mags that wern't 100%. I'll have to swing by the streichers place and try a couple more of your guy's suggestions.


Just when I didn't think anyone visited the Calibers, Stopping Power, and Such forum :lol: Lots of help thanks!
Author:  DeanC [ Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Be sure to try different bullet weights. I know in my XD the 147gr bullets had a significantly different point of impact than the 115's, as much as six inches even at close range.
Author:  WestSideGuy [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just picked up some new carry ammo as I shot out my last Remington 115 at the range. This time they (WalMart) only had the 147 grain. Looks like I need to head back to the range to shoot the new stuff.
Author:  doctor_strangelove [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Golden Saber +p BJHP 124 grains, here. Feeds without a hiccup in both my 9mm pistols, and I've got a lot of it...
Author:  Pinnacle [ Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:03 am ]
Post subject: 
goalie wrote:
cobb wrote:
Maybe a little off, but I would like to expand on this quote -
Quote:
That is about as good as it gets

What is even better is 100% reliable in your weapon.

100% reliably of feeding, firing and complete cycling of your carry weapon with your carry ammunition, then expected bullet performance is as best as it can get.

I always ask my students if they know what the 2 loudest noises in the world are.
A bang if you are expecting a click and a click if you are expecting a bang. :wink:

I believe that bullet performance is not at the top of the list. More important is that the ammunition has to work in your weapon first, you have to hit your target effectively is second, and them debate if the bullet performance was what was expected and made a difference. 8)

But what do I know? I am still surprised at the amount of hydro shock damage done on a deer shot with factory Whelen ammunition, it was worse than a shot from a 270.


Not to speak for Pinnacle, but I am quite certain that he, like myself, would never even consider ammo that didn't run in the gun flawlessly for at least several hundred rounds. Heck, nobody should.

You might as well go one further and say that having a gun is more important than the ammo.......

:wink:


Power is nothing without being able to place it on target - EVERY TIME.

Went shooting yesterday with Pat. Nice to get to the range.
Author:  ironbear [ Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pinnacle wrote:
I have been shooting and carrying Winchester RA9TA's for some time

Would you be kind enought to share where you get the RA9TA's. The only place I've seen them is on Gunbroker.com for a box at a time.
Author:  Pinnacle [ Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
ironbear wrote:
Pinnacle wrote:
I have been shooting and carrying Winchester RA9TA's for some time

Would you be kind enought to share where you get the RA9TA's. The only place I've seen them is on Gunbroker.com for a box at a time.


I can order them from Winchester direct - industry account.
Author:  Jeff Bergquist [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I'm concerned that at close range, the lighter +P's could easily over-penetrate.


Macphisto, I believe you are under a misapprehension. The way I understand it the rule generally is that the heavier the bullet the higher the penetration. When fired with similar pressures, a lighter bullet has higher velocity and thus greater muzzle energy, but the heavier bullet will have higher momentum and thus more penetration. One way to look at it is that the lighter bullet with less inertia gets slowed faster from resistance as it passes through matter, whether a body or even just air.
Author:  macphisto [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Jeff Bergquist wrote:
Quote:
I'm concerned that at close range, the lighter +P's could easily over-penetrate.


Macphisto, I believe you are under a misapprehension. The way I understand it the rule generally is that the heavier the bullet the higher the penetration. When fired with similar pressures, a lighter bullet has higher velocity and thus greater muzzle energy, but the heavier bullet will have higher momentum and thus more penetration. One way to look at it is that the lighter bullet with less inertia gets slowed faster from resistance as it passes through matter, whether a body or even just air.

You're absolutely right. I've done a lot of reading and learning since posting that. One author said it has a great deal to do with expansion. The higher velocity of +P's cause them to expand more rapidly and thus not penetrate as deeply as heavier, slower bullets. I'm still carrying the 147 grain Gold Dots as I've come to the conclusion that any good HP will do. Shot placement is king.
Author:  Pinnacle [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:19 am ]
Post subject: 
macphisto wrote:
Jeff Bergquist wrote:
Quote:
I'm concerned that at close range, the lighter +P's could easily over-penetrate.


Macphisto, I believe you are under a misapprehension. The way I understand it the rule generally is that the heavier the bullet the higher the penetration. When fired with similar pressures, a lighter bullet has higher velocity and thus greater muzzle energy, but the heavier bullet will have higher momentum and thus more penetration. One way to look at it is that the lighter bullet with less inertia gets slowed faster from resistance as it passes through matter, whether a body or even just air.

You're absolutely right. I've done a lot of reading and learning since posting that. One author said it has a great deal to do with expansion. The higher velocity of +P's cause them to expand more rapidly and thus not penetrate as deeply as heavier, slower bullets. I'm still carrying the 147 grain Gold Dots as I've come to the conclusion that any good HP will do. Shot placement is king.


A well constructed (tough) 124-127gr. bullet going as fast as you can push it seems to be ideal in a 9mm.

I am not a huge fan of the heavier 9mm stuff - it is slow and will not reliably expand at subsonic velocity. A 147gr bullet even moving slow will penetrate a lot of material which is not always a bad thing and not always a good thing.

I am actually an advocate of shooting 230gr Ball from a 45 - reliability is the key here - diameter makes up for a lot of sins.

Basically - try what shoots the best - and you are comfortable with - there are no real good answers here - just opinions - mine especially.
Author:  macphisto [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:27 am ]
Post subject: 
I think the 147's make for a good Winter bullet in case the ruffian is wearing a thick down coat.

Image

:P
Author:  Red XIII [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
macphisto wrote:
I think the 147's make for a good Winter bullet in case the ruffian is wearing a thick down coat.

Image

:P



That is wrong on SO MANY levels! But it did make me laugh, so what does that say about me?!?

To the OP, DEFINITELY look into the Federal EFMJ. (124 Gr. +p)
http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

5 up from the bottom they have some good pics/speeds

Also, they're $16 for 50 of em at Streicher's, $14 for 50 (non+p) Federal HST's (124 gr.) too!

Red
Author:  westhope [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pink booties on a dog is way too much!
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