Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:42 am

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 .45 ball ammo question 

What's inside your .45?
1. I always carry .45 ball ammo.  11%  11%  [ 3 ]
2. I sometimes carry .45 ball ammo.  29%  29%  [ 8 ]
3. I use ball .45 ammo only for practice.  61%  61%  [ 17 ]
Total votes : 28

 .45 ball ammo question 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:58 am 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: N 44°56.621` W 093°11.256 (St Paul)
While arguing/discussing .45 v.s. all else, and ball v.s. JHP is kind of like arguing/ discussing blonds v.s. brunette v.s. read head, or chevy v.s. ford. It all comes down to personal choice, level of comfort, confidence, and familiarity.

However, to put just one more perspective on it, the following is a list of casualties from WW1, WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. Now consider that if just 1% were KIA with a .45 you would derive the following:

9.7 M WWI
25.5 M WWII
1.5 M Korea
3.5 M Viet Nam
------------------
40.2 M Total KIA and 1% would be 402k.

I think that I will stand with numbers - in general ball works........ :wink:

.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:24 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:06 pm
Posts: 266
Location: N Mpls, MN
Pinnacle wrote:
Consider this - the 45 is the EASIEST of all common self defense rounds to defeat with very low level body armor - the 9mm XXXXX is the HARDEST to defeat even with the best body armor.


Pinnacle -

Would you care to elaborate on that? It sounds interesting!

Thanks!

TomK
Mpls, MN

_________________
You can’t negotiate with people who want to kill you.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:49 pm 
Designated waste of protoplasm
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:41 pm
Posts: 1807
Location: Western Burbs of MPLS
W0THK wrote:
Pinnacle wrote:
Consider this - the 45 is the EASIEST of all common self defense rounds to defeat with very low level body armor - the 9mm XXXXX is the HARDEST to defeat even with the best body armor.


Pinnacle -

Would you care to elaborate on that? It sounds interesting!

Thanks!

TomK
Mpls, MN


Not in a public forum


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:45 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 908
Location: Meeker Co., MN
JonnyB wrote:
KonaSeven wrote:
I recall this ammo test on The Box O' Truth, showing the effectiveness of hollowpoints when shooting through clothing.
Image

Where a Black Talon JHP (left) shot through "clothing" did not expand at all, vs. a Hydrashok (right) shot into the same setup with out the "clothing".

Full Article found here


Almost. That photo shows the .45ACP bullet without the cloth in front of the jug of water. With the layers of clothing, the .45 didn't expand, either. It seems that pretty much nothing they tried did.

jb


I believe that they are showing that shooting through clothing plugged and/or covered the hollowpoint and it did not expand. Shooting just into water gave nice expansion. Although they are not crystal clear on that point, however in previous tests almost all the hollowpoints mushroom nicely in water. But they did note that,

Quote:
We were surprised by the difference the clothing made in the pistol rounds performance. It sure seemed to make a big difference in whether the bullets expanded or not.


leading me to believe that the mushroomed bullet was fired into their set-up without clothing.

_________________
1 of 55153
"The attitude of people associating guns with nothing but crime, that is what has to be changed. I grew up at a time when people were not afraid of people with firearms." —Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
Sierra Trading - Firearms Sales, Service and Training


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:02 pm 
Designated waste of protoplasm
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:41 pm
Posts: 1807
Location: Western Burbs of MPLS
When you fire a JHP into a bucket of water or into gelatin (bare) they mushroom PERFECTLY most of the time regardless of cost or make.

Add clothing and things change. they all seem to fall short and act like ball anyhow.

unless you fear attack by a bare jug of water or a blob of gelatin - go ahead and buy those spendy JHP's


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:06 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: N 44°56.621` W 093°11.256 (St Paul)
Pinnacle wrote:
When you fire a JHP into a bucket of water or into gelatin (bare) they mushroom PERFECTLY most of the time regardless of cost or make.

Add clothing and things change. they all seem to fall short and act like ball anyhow.

unless you fear attack by a bare jug of water or a blob of gelatin - go ahead and buy those spendy JHP's


Gelatin doesn't have bones it it either....................... :roll:

.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:12 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:18 pm
Posts: 422
Location: Maple Grove
Just an odd point of observation…

I was pruning trees at my Mom’s house with my 1911 a week back (Mom lives “way up north,” in front of 22 miles of uninhabitable slush, over which I was shooting at an approximate 60° angle…). I was using my spendy 230gr Remington Golden Sabers, which actually do function like hard ball during feeding. Never had a problem, even with my most finicky 1911…

“Oh, boy!” thought I, “We’re really going to see the wood fly!” I was trying to snap a six inch piece of basswood about forty feet up. In went little 0.45” holes and out came little 0.45” holes. What happened to the expected expansion I paid for (I am not going to skimp on my Mom’s trees, for goodness sake!)?

Frankly, I was shocked. I really did expect the branch to darn near explode! It didn’t…


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:23 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 908
Location: Meeker Co., MN
Pinnacle wrote:
When you fire a JHP into a bucket of water or into gelatin (bare) they mushroom PERFECTLY most of the time regardless of cost or make.

Add clothing and things change. they all seem to fall short and act like ball anyhow.

unless you fear attack by a bare jug of water or a blob of gelatin - go ahead and buy those spendy JHP's


heh heh good point. However, Buffalo Bore is the only commercially loaded FMJ I can find loaded to close to full power. It seems most other companies hottest FMJ load is in the 850 FPS 350 Lb Ft range. Whereas JHP can be found in many product lists loaded to +p power.
1250 FPS and 570 Lb ft. So which is better, big and slow or big and fast?

_________________
1 of 55153
"The attitude of people associating guns with nothing but crime, that is what has to be changed. I grew up at a time when people were not afraid of people with firearms." —Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
Sierra Trading - Firearms Sales, Service and Training


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:27 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 908
Location: Meeker Co., MN
Pat wrote:
What happened to the expected expansion I paid for (I am not going to skimp on my Mom’s trees, for goodness sake!)?

Frankly, I was shocked. I really did expect the branch to darn near explode! It didn’t…


It was the Basswood. I have found shooting the HP's into hardwoods makes a good show. Into soft pine it just makes a hole. I think the hollowpoint fills up and the wood shears off easily and goes along for the ride, creating wooden point hardball ammo.

_________________
1 of 55153
"The attitude of people associating guns with nothing but crime, that is what has to be changed. I grew up at a time when people were not afraid of people with firearms." —Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
Sierra Trading - Firearms Sales, Service and Training


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:33 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:18 pm
Posts: 422
Location: Maple Grove
KonaSeven wrote:
heh heh good point. However, Buffalo Bore is the only commercially loaded FMJ I can find loaded to close to full power. It seems most other companies hottest FMJ load is in the 850 FPS 350 Lb Ft range. Whereas JHP can be found in many product lists loaded to +p power.
1250 FPS and 570 Lb ft. So which is better, big and slow or big and fast?


If you are indeed carrying these heavier than engineered for loads, please really do consider using heavier recoil springs. Nighthawk offers springs at cost, just to make sure that folks don’t smash the Dickens out of their guns. http://www.nighthawkcustom.com

Get me away from that web site! It is evil, I swear! Far too much beauty to put on public display :twisted:


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:47 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 908
Location: Meeker Co., MN
Pat wrote:
If you are indeed carrying these heavier than engineered for loads, please really do consider using heavier recoil springs.


Yep, tune for what you are shooting.

_________________
1 of 55153
"The attitude of people associating guns with nothing but crime, that is what has to be changed. I grew up at a time when people were not afraid of people with firearms." —Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
Sierra Trading - Firearms Sales, Service and Training


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:00 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 908
Location: Meeker Co., MN
Pat wrote:
Nighthawk offers springs at cost, just to make sure that folks don’t smash the Dickens out of their guns. http://www.nighthawkcustom.com

Get me away from that web site! It is evil, I swear! Far too much beauty to put on public display :twisted:


Hey, that is a neat site. Thanks for the link. :)

_________________
1 of 55153
"The attitude of people associating guns with nothing but crime, that is what has to be changed. I grew up at a time when people were not afraid of people with firearms." —Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
Sierra Trading - Firearms Sales, Service and Training


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:27 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 327
Location: St Louis Park
Quote:
Consider this - the 45 is the EASIEST of all common self defense rounds to defeat with very low level body armor - the 9mm XXXXX is the HARDEST to defeat even with the best body armor.


I know next-to-nothing about ballistics, but I would guess that a smaller, faster bullet penetrates body armor better than a bigger, slower bullet.

_________________
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:06 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 5270
Location: Minneapolis
Greg M wrote:
I know next-to-nothing about ballistics, but I would guess that a smaller, faster bullet penetrates body armor better than a bigger, slower bullet.


Hence, the Belgian Needle Shooter:
Image

_________________
I am defending myself... in favor of that!


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:26 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am
Posts: 4468
DeanC wrote:
Greg M wrote:
I know next-to-nothing about ballistics, but I would guess that a smaller, faster bullet penetrates body armor better than a bigger, slower bullet.


Hence, the Belgian Needle Shooter:
Image


didn't some entity try (or succeed for all I know) banning that for the specific reason that it defeats body armor?

I'm reminded that a car easily defeats body armor and can kill its target if used inappropriately :twisted:


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group