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I've decided to relax: it's all good!
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Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  I've decided to relax: it's all good!
(I posted this in the "handloaded ammo" thread, but I think it's worth discussion here)

I've personally decided to relax a lot about ammo. It's all good.

I've shot 2500 rounds or so Winchester White Box FMJ and never had a dud or a squib. I'm pretty convinced of the general reliability of factory ammo, and Winchester in particular.

Knowing that it's a good idea to shoot a couple hundred rounds of your carry ammo through your carry gun to make sure it's reliable, I did some math, and decided I can't spend $150 to $175 to test a bunch of ultra-premium ammo in each gun.

So I've decided to carry Winchester hollow points in standard pressure (yes, in the white box at Walmart). They are cheap enough to shoot occasionally (unlike the $.60-$.85/round "premium" hollow points) and, although they are not "black talons," I'm pretty sure they'd still sting a bit.
Author:  Steelheart [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:22 am ]
Post subject: 
I still chose to carry corbon's as a primary load. But since I may not always have CB around due to whatever, I picked WWB 115gr jhp's as an alternate carry load due to easy availablity and price. Same weight just not as hot.

I think I only tested 60rds of CB before I started carrying it. I might be past 200 by now. I know I will be after I get through the 100rds I just bought. Since I have to order CB it's nice having a comfortable back-up that I can get locally.

Assuming an identical hit, I think the CB will do a better job. But I won't worry about not having CB in my gun if it's needed.

Steelheart
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
The owner's manual for my Taurus PT111 Millenium Pro (9mm) says:

Quote:
“Plus-P’, “Plus-P-Plus” or other ultra or high velocity ammunition generates pressures significantly in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the useful life of the firearm or exceed the margin of safety built into many pistols and could therefore be DANGEROUS.


Pretty non-specific, but it sounds like they're not promising the gun won't blow up if I shoot +P rounds.

Hrmm.

The next step down is standard-velocity Speer Gold Dots or somesuch, but those are just as expensive, and I'm just dubious that there is that much difference between two hollow-point standard-pressure 115gr cartridges.
Author:  grayskys [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you go to the cop shop in plymouth you can get hydra-shock or EFMJ in boxes of 50 for $16.00(or was it 17?) for 9mm. thats about 32-34 cents a round.

Not sure what 10mm cost but I think .40cal was only a dollar or two more.
Author:  Steelheart [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:21 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree. There isn't likely to be much difference in effect between the 115gr jhp's. Now if one was a foreign design with an unknown amount of engineering involved, then I'll lean real hard towards the US design. In fact I do as far as my makarov goes. :D

Since the Mill Pro is also in 40 I wouldn't be too worried about 9mm +P loads for carry. The ammo warning might just be the legal department talking or it might not. It still comes back to whatever you're comfortable with.

And like you said, you can easily find and afford the load that you want to use. I've heard it discussed that the WWB jhp is the same basic bullet as the silvertip jhp without the coating. But this has not been confirmed or tested.

Incase anyone out there is wondering, the cheapest corbon I've found is at Sportmans's Guide. The drawback is that it might be backordered for a while. Hence the back-up load. The 100rds I just got ran me around $50, but that was included in a larger order.

Steelheart
Author:  joelr [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Here's my own theory, for what it's worth
Sure; it's all good. But none of it is reliably good enough. The reason that gun folks spend so much time focusing on calibers and loadings -- and firearms and training and all that -- is that those are , in the event of actually having to use the darned thing, among the things that we can control, and we spend a lot of time (and I mean "we"; I'm including myself) on those is because, as relatively unimportant as they are, they are choices that we get to make.

The single most important thing about a lethal encounter is something we can't control: whether or not it happens in the first place. Influence, sure; control, nope.
Author:  gunflint [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:14 am ]
Post subject: 
When I first recieved my permit in March of 2004 I would debate with myself about when to carry and what to load it with. Over time I have made it easy on myself. I carry everywhere, everyday. I realized that I'll never be able to predict when I'll need to use a weapon therefore it's with me at all times. (I don't go to church)

As far as what ammo to use, I also go with factory loads. I have only reloaded about 700 rounds so far and have had a couple of problems. I've got those problems worked out but at this point, when it come to saving my life, I trust Federal better than myself.

The only changes I make are in what type of round I carry. For myself the biggest potencial threat on a daily basis is in the form of paws and claws and maybe a chance run in with a methlab. So I use 250g solid core federals in .41 mag. When I go to the big city (Duluth) I will change over to a lighter hollow point for obvious reasons.
Author:  sigman [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Tthe most important thing is to extensively test your carry ammo and your firearm at the range. You don't want any surprises if the need to defend yourself were to arise. I have found some firearms and ammo that are unreliable and not suitable for carry purposes.
Author:  BigRedBowtie [ Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
+1 on the WhiteBox HPs. After I got my 45 back from springfield, I started about reliability testing. Couple hundred 230 FMJ- good. Couple boxes of WB230JHP... good. Back to my old 230 Golden Sabers? Holy Smokes- those are spendy! I'll take another box of WB230JHP, please.

They're with me as we speak.
Author:  Srigs [ Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I use some whitebox 40 JHP 180grain for my HD gun and 100% reliable. :)
Author:  TerryElliott [ Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Good idea
In 9mm, Ayoob's recommendation for the ideal round matches very well with white box Winchester ammo.



Terry
Author:  bab [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm going to revive this old thread due to a recent incident...

I've put ~600 rounds of .38 Blazer through my S&W 340PD. No problems. Just recently I had four rounds jam the gun when the recoil of this light little gun caused them to "jump the crimp". And this was in less than half a box of rounds! Now these are just cheapo solid lead practice rounds. I've never carried with them, and don't recommend anyone else carry them either. I've always carried Speer Gold dots. But I'm still a little worried, and here is why... most people would have considered those first 600 rounds a pretty safe statistical sample, and therefore good predictor of the brands behaviour. WRONG. Looks like batch to batch variation can reach up and bite you.

So now I'm wondering about the Gold Dots. They're much pricier, and I can't afford to put 600 of them through the gun, plus, as we've just seen it doesn't always matter how many you put through the gun. The next batch can behave differently. I've got to believe part of the extra cost of the Gold Dots goes towards insuring a strong and consistent crimp. Am I fooling myself?

Does anyone have any hard data on this issue?

Thanks.
Author:  mostlylawabidingcitizen [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
For those of you who carry with Corbons loaded the same thing happend to them on one lot back a few years ago. This problems can surface from any manufacture at any time.

But what are you going to do? Pull apart and reseat each round to insure there is a charge in the case? Run some though to insure it feeds and keep your fingers crossed that if the need arises the round wasn't mis-charged.

Mostly-
Author:  mostlylawabidingcitizen [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh, and I load up my 44Mag with Corbon 305gr Penatrators when there's the possiblity of a Teeth and Claws encounter... Just hope 6 are enough; and hope the Corbons were filled to the rim!

I'm still pondering trading my Anaconda in stainless for a SW 500 Mag. biggest thing holding me back is a SW would require new holsters, new hunting ammo, new, new, new... Not to mention I take enough grief about packing that extra weight up and down the mountains, I think the SW is half again as much weight as the Anaconda.

Take care all

Mostly-
Author:  G19 [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  make your decision, then forget about it........
In my opinion, way too much is made of the caliber / bullet selection issue. I believe that as long as you're carrying one of the main self defense calibers, ie, 9mm / .38sp or bigger - you'll be fine. These, carried with one of the reputable factory hollow point rounds will serve you well. Lets face it, all handgun rounds are woefully inadequate in terms of "stopping power". So - pick one that you can shoot well and that you're comfortable with re: it's ballistics -- then, forget about it - and put your money and mental energy into practice, training and getting better with it. Personally, I don't think caliber is as big a deal as was once thought in terms of stopping an attack. More important is the man - or woman - behind the gun and how well he - or she - can shoot. Placing multiple shots quickly on target if far more critical than caliber - IMHO.
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