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 .45 gap vs .45 acp 
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 Post subject: .45 gap vs .45 acp
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:38 pm 
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anyone have a feel for the difference between the two. i am looking at the Springfield armory XD in .45 gap. how does the .45 gap compare to the .40? thanks for any input!


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 Post subject: Re: .45 gap vs .45 acp
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:40 pm 
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the_interpreter wrote:
anyone have a feel for the difference between the two. i am looking at the Springfield armory XD in .45 gap. how does the .45 gap compare to the .40? thanks for any input!
Its about the same. Ammo cost more for the GAP.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:22 pm 
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never mind. i found what i wanted. i will take 45 acp anytime

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-45acp.shtml


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:56 am 
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the_interpreter wrote:
never mind. i found what i wanted. i will take 45 acp anytime

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-45acp.shtml

Good choice. The only advantage for the 45 GAP is that it works in a slightly -- very slightly -- thinner frame. For that -- which isn't all that much -- you go with much more expensive, harder-to-find ammo, and many fewer choices.

I think of it primarily as a specialty round -- suitable for those police departments that specify 45, require Glocks, and aren't willing to get grips modified for those officers with smaller hands.

If it weren't being supported by Glock, my guess it would have gone the way of the 41 Action Express by now.

Beyond that, I was pretty impressed with the URL from Springfield -- that's kind of a slick piece of marketing. I think of the XD as a good, solid, middle-range firearm, but they're positioning it as much higher-end. (I don't own an XD, but I've fired one a few times -- perfectly decent guns, and I do like the grip safety, as I don't think that, under stress, somebody's going to forget to grip the handgun.)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:51 pm 
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If you reload, it is quite the viable round. As others have said though, it is pretty much an answer in search of a question, especially given the performance of premium ammunition out of the .40's and 9's nowdays.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:10 pm 
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joelr wrote:
...The only advantage for the 45 GAP is that it works in a slightly -- very slightly -- thinner frame.


Thinner? Do you mean thinner left-to-right? If so, how is that, I mean .45" is .45", right? I thought the only difference was length, allowing a shorter weapon and in particular a shorter grip.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:39 pm 
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Pat Cannon wrote:
joelr wrote:
...The only advantage for the 45 GAP is that it works in a slightly -- very slightly -- thinner frame.


Thinner? Do you mean thinner left-to-right? If so, how is that, I mean .45" is .45", right? I thought the only difference was length, allowing a shorter weapon and in particular a shorter grip.
I don't understand why that's so, but it is -- Gaston Glock wanted to put a 45 in the mid-sized frame, like the 17 and 19. For some reason or other, the equally wide but shorter 45 GAP works in that frame when the 45 ACP doesn't.

It sounded weird to me when I heard that from Roger at Burnsville -- but it turns out to be true. Wierd, but true.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:56 am 
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joelr wrote:
...The only advantage for the 45 GAP is that it works in a slightly -- very slightly -- thinner frame. ...
I don't understand why that's so, but it is -- Gaston Glock wanted to put a 45 in the mid-sized frame, like the 17 and 19. For some reason or other, the equally wide but shorter 45 GAP works in that frame when the 45 ACP doesn't.

It sounded weird to me when I heard that from Roger at Burnsville -- but it turns out to be true. Wierd, but true.


Huh. I'll be darned. This is going to bug me til I google up the reason; I'll let you know what I find out (or maybe somebody here knows).

[update after 1 session of link-chasing:] The only things I've come up with are, 1) that the brass is heavier & thus maybe could get away with being fired from a thinner-walled chamber. The trouble with this idea is the +P-like chamber pressure of the GAP. Anyway, 2) it occurs to me that a structure, be it a bridge or a chamber wall, can be thinner & lighter if it has a shorter length to bridge. This would be a pretty darn small factor, though.

And anyway Glocks still have fat slides 'cause (especially the compacts) need the weight to function reliably.

Which reminds me, another issue I ran across was speculation that the shorter cartridge might feed more reliably.

Anyway the 'thinner' issue remains a minor mystery to me; maybe it means I should go down to Burnsville and interrogate Roger (and get in some shooting!).


Last edited by Pat Cannon on Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:13 am 
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I know that the 45gap Xd only holds 9 rounds in the "double stack" mag vs 15rds of 9mm or 12 rds of 40.

The 45gap has an overall length the same as 9mm/40 so will work in those frame sizes, the 45acp has a longer overall length.

I'll admit that I wasn't that impressed with the cartridge when it came out. I don't have any issue with the ballistics, I just don't see a need, with the possible exception being a 45 for people with small hands (too small for a 1911 for example).

Now that XD in 45acp looks real nice. I'm just not sure how they are fitting more rounds of 45acp than 40 into the same length of mag. Most likely they redesigned the mag follower. I'm sure that it'll be at the Shot Show so there should be reports afterwards.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:24 pm 
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The .45 GAP uses the same exact frame and magazine bodies of the 9mm and .40 Glocks. The mags are thinner and have a shorter overall bullet length than the larger .45 ACP Glock 21 mags. The GAP rounds end up being only semi-staggered in the 9mm magazine as compared to the G21 staggered side by side .45 ACP mags. Which was the whole idea in the first place. To make a handgun with similar or the same ballistics of a .45 ACP but in a 9mm size gun that would fit most everbody. If you like Glocks, that is. Some people don't. I have fairly good size hands and I always thought the full size Glock 21 (.45 ACP) felt a bit too big, even in my hands. I still love it even though it has become a safe queen.

I also thought GAP was the stupidest thing GLock did when they first came out with it. It took two years for my to even try one. Since then, the midsize Glock 38, in GAP, is one of my favorite handguns. Especially for carry. .45 performance in a concealable, 9mm size, package.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:50 pm 
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keith wrote:
.45 performance in a concealable, 9mm size, package.


From what I have read, the 45 GAP performance matches or exceeds the 45 ACP with the 200 grain bullets and lighter. When it gets to the 225's or the 230's, the 45 ACP has the edge. Also that these comparisons are base on the 45 GAP loads which I believe work at higher pressure and the standard 45 ACP loads. But when the 45 GAP is compared to the 45 ACP +P loadings, the 45 ACP has the edge, especially in the heavier loadings. Of course this information all depends on which article you are reading at the time, by a certain writer, in a certain specialty magazine. :wink:

The 45 GAP fits in a smaller framed pistol which appeals to some, which is great, another option that fits a need or want. But the day that it takes over the market in full sized framed 1911's, that will be the day that I know that everybody has gone nuts. :roll: Now a cut down sized Colt Defender or Springfield Micro, which has been done, now this would make a little more compact auto that can still make a big hole, now I'm alright with that. :twisted:

Ain't this country great :D

Well, at least until the liberal weenies get their way. :cry:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:15 pm 
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I pulled this from GlockTalk in case anyone wants to further pursue the study of GAP and why on earth we needed another cartridge to further complicate our lives. :D

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:43 pm 
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keith wrote:
I pulled this from GlockTalk in case anyone wants to further pursue the study of GAP and why on earth we needed another cartridge to further complicate our lives. :D

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/


The links there include this one which is pretty funny, introducing the .45 SAP (Short Automatic Pistol): http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar81.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:41 pm 
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Pat Cannon wrote:
keith wrote:
I pulled this from GlockTalk in case anyone wants to further pursue the study of GAP and why on earth we needed another cartridge to further complicate our lives. :D

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/


The links there include this one which is pretty funny, introducing the .45 SAP (Short Automatic Pistol): http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar81.htm

Image


Thanks, Pat.

I love those technical, informative tests!

I'm going out to find a SAP auto loader today. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:14 am 
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Pat Cannon wrote:
The links there include this one which is pretty funny, introducing the .45 SAP (Short Automatic Pistol): http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar81.htm


I've heard of double-stack magazines, but maybe this would be cause for the introduction of the double-row magazine?

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