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 Speaking of subsidies... 
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 Post subject: Speaking of subsidies...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:57 pm 
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From a USA Today Article 2/3/09
Quote:
The Postal Service has lost $7.9 billion in the past two years. It has borrowed money to pay its bills

hmm...

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Last edited by PocketProtector642 on Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:22 pm 
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I think that's the first time the USPS has had to borrow money. Is it really a subsidy if they pay it back?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:02 pm 
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True, but borrowing assumes that they will be able to pay it back. I guess its debt then.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Simple solution. Privatize or eliminate the postal service. The feds have no more business operating a postal service than they do operating massage parlors or golf courses.

And dump Amtrak while we're at it...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:34 pm 
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Lenny7 wrote:
Simple solution. Privatize or eliminate the postal service. The feds have no more business operating a postal service than they do operating massage parlors or golf courses.

And dump Amtrak while we're at it...


Amen.

(We might also include the local bus line, along with light rail, and every other government supported business.)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:48 pm 
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Lenny7 wrote:
The feds have no more business operating a postal service than they do operating massage parlors or golf courses.


Quote:
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


I'll be damned if I can find a cite for massage parlors or golf courses, but the post office is constitutional.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:53 pm 
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princewally wrote:
I'll be damned if I can find a cite for massage parlors or golf courses, but the post office is constitutional.


I'm not saying it's not authorized. I'm saying there's no rational basis for it in this day and age.

gawd...i sound like an anti, don't I! Nevermind. I love the post office. Long live the post office. I'd rather subsidize the post office than open the door to "modernizing" the Constitution.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Yeah it is rational, because it does not rely on a business model to produce a reason to give small towns a local branch of the US Govt where legal transactions can take place. The post office and the public school systems were parts of the egalitarian mindset that said EVERYONE would have equal access to the government and its services.

THey belong, they are important, and they are trusted, Key points to remember.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:42 pm 
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1911fan wrote:
Yeah it is rational, because it does not rely on a business model to produce a reason to give small towns a local branch of the US Govt where legal transactions can take place. The post office and the public school systems were parts of the egalitarian mindset that said EVERYONE would have equal access to the government and its services.

THey belong, they are important, and they are trusted, Key points to remember.


Interesting points that deserve consideration. I'm not sure I agree, but it's something to think about.

Certainly back then that was the case*, but both Fed Ex and UPS have found it profitable to deliver packages to small towns. Would the mail service be the same way if privatized? I think so. Even McDonalds & Subway have found there way into small towns. Rural areas might be different.

What we're really talking about with the US Postal Service is leveling the cost of providing service between high density and low density customer bases. It costs the same either way. I wonder what the price would be if it were privatized.

We've done the same thing in the past with the REA and we're doing it now with federal funding for broadband internet access (because surfing, downloading music, and IM'ing at a reasonable speed is a RIGHT!).

Let me make it clear, however, that I'm not questioning the need for a post office and the services they provide, I'm questioning whether it needs to be a gov't run service.

ETA: * I take it back...in 1840 it cost 18¢ to mail a letter from NYC to Troy, NY but it only cost 12¢ to ship a barrel of flour over the same route. As a result, private express services carried the mail at 1/5 the cost. (from "Stagecoach, Wells Fargo and the American West", Philip L. Fradkin, Free Press, New York, 2002). So much for egalitarianism.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Like it or not, it is a Constitutionally mandated organization and it has pretty much paid its own way. I'd imagine privatization might be more efficient, but there's a mess of hoops to jump through to do it right.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:55 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
Like it or not, it is a Constitutionally mandated organization and it has pretty much paid its own way. I'd imagine privatization might be more efficient, but there's a mess of hoops to jump through to do it right.


That's what they said about Federal Express and overnight delivery. FedEx turned a profit in only two years. That's quite an accomplishment for a company that bought its own airplanes right from the start.

The USPS is constitutionally mandated, but the monopoly that it has is not. It wasn't until the Postal Act to 1845 that private companies were directly prohibited from carrying letters for hire.

It seems rather absurd to me that a freedom loving country such as ours would outlaw the practice of one person paying another person or company a fee to take some paper and bring it from one place to another.

I'm not disputing the constitutionality of the USPS, only the rationality, particularly the rationale for outlawing private mail carriers. If the private business model works for the trucking industry (even in small towns and rural america), it will work for mail delivery. But that's just my libertarian viewpoint.


Last edited by Lenny7 on Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Oh, I never said it was rational or even proper. :wink:

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