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 The Single Issue? 
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 Post subject: The Single Issue?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:09 pm 
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What the discussion (brouhaha?) I started made very clear is that this group is a varied bunch with widely differing positions on the topics of the day.

I personally believe that single issue campaigns are only successful if the supporters are pretty much on the same page the other major areas. I think that was true in years gone by but is decreasing with the diversification(?) of society.

So the question: Is there a single issue that is so strong that it can unite enough members of our diverse society to be victorious? Why?

Please do not answer "what should be the single issue that is..." That is not what I'm asking. Is there a single issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Newt Gingrich is fond of talking about 80% issues - things that 80% of the population agree on. People will get behind those issues and run with them, the problem is, once you add a second issue/policy/etc. chances are high that the 20% opposed to that issue will include some in your original 80%.

That said - the more the "idea" becomes implemented (made law, or whatever) the more the consequences of its implementation will alienate more and more people.

Example:

Terrorism Bad (80%+ support)

Kill Terrorists (lose some folks who don't want to kill anyone, or just want to lock them up)

TSA to protect us (lose people who think TSA is a joke, and folks with privacy concerns)

GWOT....

you get the idea

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:26 pm 
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Posts: 1419
Location: SE MPLS
thePKOR wrote:
That said - the more the "idea" becomes implemented (made law, or whatever) the more the consequences of its implementation will alienate more and more people.


Hayek discussed this in "The Road to Serfdom":

Quote:
There are certain functions of the state on the exercise of which
there will be practical unanimity among its citizens; there will be
others on which there will be agreement of a substantial majority and
so on, until we come to fields where, although each individual might
wish the state to act in some way, there will be almost as many views
about what the government should do as there are different people.

[...]

It is not difficult to see what must be the consequence when democracy
embarks upon a course of planning which in its execution requires
more agreement than in fact exists. The people may have agreed on
adopting a system of directed economy because they have been convinced
that it will produce great prosperity. In the discussions leading
to the decision, the goal of planning will have been described by
some such term as "common welfare", which only conceals the absence
of real agreement on the ends of planning. Agreement will in fact
exist only on the mechanism to be used.

But it is a mechanism which can be used only for a common end; and
the question of the precise goal towards which all activity is to be
directed will arise as soon as the executive power has to translate
the demand for a single plan into a particular plan. Then it will
appear that the agreement on the desirability of planning is not
supported by agreement on the ends the plan is to serve. The effect
of the people's agreeing that there must be central planning, without
agreeing on the ends, will be rather as if a group of people were to
commit themselves to take a journey together without agreeing where
they want to go: with the result that that they may all have to make a
journey which most of them do not want at all. That planning creates
a situation in which it is necessary to agree on a much larger number
of topics than we have been used to, and that in a planned system we
cannot confine collective action to the tasks on which we can agree
but are forced to produce agreement on everything in order that any
action can be taken at all is one of the features which contributes
more than most to determine the character of a planned system.

It may be the unanimously expressed will of the people that its
parliament should prepare a comprehensive economic plan, yet neither
the people nor its representatives need therefore be able to agree on
any particular plan. The inability of democratic assemblies to carry
out what seems to be a clear mandate of the people will inevitably
cause dissatisfaction with democratic institutions. Parliaments come
to be regarded as ineffective "talking shops", unable or incompetent to
carry out the tasks for which they have been chosen. The conviction
grows that if efficient planning is to be done, the direction must be
"taken out of politics" and placed in the hands of experts - permanent
officials or independent autonomous bodies.

[...]

It is important to see the causes of this admitted ineffectiveness
on everything - the whole direction of the resources of the nation.
For such a task the system of majority decisions is, however,
not suited. Majorities will be found where it is a choice between
limited alternatives; but it is a superstition to believe that there
must be a majority view on everything. There is no reason why there
should be a majority in favor of any one of the different possible
courses of positive action if their number is legion. Every member
of the legislative assembly might prefer some particular plan for
the direction of economic activity to no plan, yet no one plan may
appear preferable to a majority than no plan at all.



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:34 am 
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Well, I think what you see here on this board is an answer to that question. It is an incredibly diverse message board we have here & it hasn't devolved into one sect ruling the roost . . . largely due to the majority here feeling so strongly on this one issue that we are/ have been historically willing to put aside differences & try and move forward as a community. That has been in part due to excellent work by moderators, however the plain and simple truth that we are trying to promote something we see as a fundamental right also has to help. It would be far hard to be a cohesive community if we were anti-something. Pro-rights is easy to get behind. So here we have democrat and republican, some libertarians and at least this one anarchist, heterosexuals, homosexuals, atheists, agnostics, Jews and Christians . .. if I am leaving someone out it isn't intentional. I don't want anyone's fundamental right to self defense to be left behind and it is glorious that these individuals who are not anarchists, are not Celts refusing to be called white, are not former Anglicans in limbo, are not fathers of small children, are not motorcyclists, and so forth . . folks who are not all the labels I might wear come together here and agree that my fundamental right to self defense should not be denied. It rocks! We don't have to be the same. I think I said elsewhere - diversity is not monochromatic. Real tolerance does not fail to ackowledge differences. Diversity and tolerance make us stronger in no small part because the group is always looking to add.

Groups that demand uniformity always fail because they seek to exclude. Eventually in such groups they run out of folks on the outside to exclude and so they start culling their herd . . . "no people with nervous twitches. Hey Barry over there has a nervous twitch, kick him out!" and that leads to folks like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_F._Hale I went to H.S. with Matt Hale, he was a charismatic (not in the relgious sense) kind of idiot and I rememeber running into him and his World Church Of The Creator goons in a park one day . . . walking away thinking "wow, that is a doomed movement". Sure enough, they culled their herd until pretty much only those willing to commit hate crimes were left and then the predictable happened . . . they went to jail and faded into obscurity.

I want to be part of a group like what I describe in the first paragraph and will avoid like the plague goups like what I describe in the second paragraph. It is kind of why I stayed out of that thread that turned into a religious discussion. Yes, I have a religious oppinion & yes I think the country is nearing a flashpoint wherein anything from civil war, revolution, to total devolution in the major metros could happen soon. Those truths are best met by accepting folks that aren't like me. Ultimately the single issue is the Bill of Rights. Yes we are 2A specific here, but the 2A is meaningless without the 1st and the 4th. They all 10 tie together.

Quote:
Is there a single issue that is so strong that it can unite enough members of our diverse society to be victorious? Why?


Yes, the Bill of Rights for the reasons I have described above.

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Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438


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