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 A stimulus that will WORK. 
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 Post subject: A stimulus that will WORK.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:57 pm 
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10 Reasons to Whack Obama's Stimulus Plan
January 27, 2009 02:10 PM ET | James Pethokoukis | Permanent Link | Print

Some people are going to oppose President Obama's ginormous stimulus package just because they're on a different political team. But when you look at the economic evidence, it sure seems like an economic recovery package that's heavy on government spending and light on tax cuts is just the opposite of what we should be doing right now. Try this closing argument on for size:

1) A 2005 study by Andrew Mountford and Harald Uhlig "analyzed three types of policy shocks: a deficit-financed spending increase, a balanced budget spending increase (financed with higher taxes) and a deficit-financed tax cut, in which revenues increase but government spending stays unchanged. We found that a deficit-spending shock stimulates the economy for the first 4 quarters but only weakly compared to that for a deficit-financed tax cut." In other words, FDR vs. Clinton vs. Reagan, Reagan wins.

2) Harvard economist Robert Barro looked at the multiplier effect of World War II military spending -- supposedly the Mother of All Stimulus Plans and found that "wartime production siphoned off resources from other economic uses — there was a dampener, rather than a multiplier." Barro prefers eliminating the corporate income tax to massive government spending.

3) Alberto Alesina of Harvard and Luigi Zingales of the University of Chicago want to adress the fear and confidence issue by creating "the incentive for people to take more risk and move their savings from government bonds to risky assets. There is no better way to encourage this than a temporary elimination of the capital-gains tax for all the investments begun during 2009 and held for at least two years."

4) An initial CBO analysis found that a mere $26 billion out of $274 billion in infrastructure spending, just 7 percent, would be delivered into the economy by next fall. An update determined that just 64 percent of the stimulus would reach the economy by 2011.

5) University of Chicago economist and Nobel laureate Gary Becker doubts whether all this stimulus spending will do much to lower unemployment: "For one thing, the true value of these government programs may be limited because they will be put together hastily, and are likely to contain a lot of political pork and other inefficiencies. For another thing, with unemployment at 7% to 8% of the labor force, it is impossible to target effective spending programs that primarily utilize unemployed workers, or underemployed capital. Spending on infrastructure, and especially on health, energy, and education, will mainly attract employed persons from other activities to the activities stimulated by the government spending. The net job creation from these and related spending is likely to be rather small. In addition, if the private activities crowded out are more valuable than the activities hastily stimulated by this plan, the value of the increase in employment and GDP could be very small, even negative."

6) Christina Romer, the new head of the Council of Economic Advisers, coauthored a paper in which the following was written about taxes: "Tax increases appear to have a very large, sustained, and highly significant negative impact on output. Since most of our exogenous tax changes are in fact reductions, the more intuitive way to express this result is that tax cuts have very large and persistent positive output effects." And former Bush economic adviser Lawrence Lindsey tack on this addendum: "The macroeconomic benefits of tax cuts can be two to three times larger than common estimates of the benefits related to spending increases. The relative advantage of tax cuts over spending is even clearer when the recession is centered on the household balance sheet."

7) Economists Susan Woodward and Robert Hall find that the multiplier effect from infrastructure spending maybe just 1-for-1, less than that 3-to-1 ratio for tax cuts that Romer found: "We believe that the one-for-one rule derived from wartime increases in military spending would also apply to increases in infrastructure spending in a stimulus package. We should not count on any inducement of higher consumption from the infrastructure stimulus."

8) Economist John Taylor thinks it better to let the Federal Reserve deal with the short-term problems in the economy, while fiscal policy should attend to long-term issues: "In the current context of the U.S. economy, it seems best to let fiscal policy have its main countercyclical impact through the automatic stabilizer ... It seems hard to improve on this performance with a more active discretionary fiscal policy, and an activist discretionary fiscal policy might even make the job of monetary authorities more difficult. It would be appropriate in the present American context, for discretionary fiscal policy to be saved explicitly for longer-term issues, requiring less frequent changes. Examples of such a longer-term focus include fiscal policy proposals to balance the non-Social Security budget over the next ten years, to reduce marginal tax rates for long run economic efficiency, or even to reform the tax system and Social Security."

9) Massive stimulus didn't work in the Great Depression. As this Heritage Foundation study notes: "After the stock market collapse in 1929, the Hoover Administration increased federal spending by 47 percent over the following three years. As a result, federal spending increased from 3.4 percent of GDP in 1930 to 6.9 percent in 1932 and reached 9.8 percent by 1940. That same year-- 10 years into the Great Depression--America's unemployment rate stood at 14.6 percent." Same goes for Japan and its Great Stagnation of the 1990s.

10) Olivier Blanchard, the chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, coauthored a paper which found "that both increases in taxes and increases in government spending have a strong negative effect on private investment spending."

Bottom line: There is another model out there [-- deficit-financed tax cuts]. One that worked in 2003, 1997 and 1981. But will America use it?


http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-com ... -plan.html


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:09 pm 
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Heck, they don't even have to be deficit financed. Just cut a bunch of spending, that'll balance the budget. Of course it would be easier to keep the sun from rising in the East than to get Democrats - & way too many Republicans! - to actually cut spending...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:16 pm 
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JGalt wrote:
Heck, they don't even have to be deficit financed. Just cut a bunch of spending, that'll balance the budget. Of course it would be easier to keep the sun from rising in the East than to get Democrats - & way too many Republicans! - to actually cut spending...


I'd be happier if the government just piled up all the money and burned it, rather than spending it on all the crap they are promising to spend it on.

Giving 4.5 billion to ACORN?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:25 pm 
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Boy a lot of us feel that way jdedge. We've gone from looking down, to full freefall into the ABYSS. :cry: :cry: :evil: :evil:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:29 pm 
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jdege wrote:
JGalt wrote:
Heck, they don't even have to be deficit financed. Just cut a bunch of spending, that'll balance the budget. Of course it would be easier to keep the sun from rising in the East than to get Democrats - & way too many Republicans! - to actually cut spending...


I'd be happier if the government just piled up all the money and burned it, rather than spending it on all the crap they are promising to spend it on.

Giving 4.5 billion to ACORN?


Come on now - it is only $4.19 billion... That's hardly anything!

:bang: :bang: :bang:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:11 pm 
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.5 ~ .19 . . . . we are just talking fractions of a billion here . . . can I fit that in my rangebag?

The idea of giving anything to Acorn after the "yeah they paid me to vote more than once" and "yeah we accept money from overseas and yeah we give money to Obama campaign, but Obama isn't using foreign campaign money" issues, it is hard to imagine anybody looking at money for Acorn as anything but . . . what it is. Criminal racketeering.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:25 pm 
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a deficit-financed spending increase

Can anyone explain to me WTF that is? How can you spend it if you don't have it?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:46 pm 
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Dee wrote:
How can you spend it if you don't have it?

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:48 pm 
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how about reviving trust in the stock market,

Money managers can not charge a fee if they lose money, bring back the commission system. you get paid a % of your earnings.

Business execs who break the law, forfeit all money's earned while in that companies employ, AND they lose their social security. All monies means in all forms, no stock deals, no parachutes, no expense accounts.

brokers who break the fiduciary trust go to jail. Brokers must be tied to working for the buyer, or the seller,but not both, and not to their own brokerage.

Auditors who fail to catch or report abuses go to jail.

Business execs who are not at risk owners of that company are prohibited from earning X times lowest employee's pay.

These are not one hundred % worded the right way but the ideas are the same, Make bosses and brokers accountable. Tie compensation to performance. limit leverage.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:00 am 
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Macx wrote:
.5 ~ .19 . . . . we are just talking fractions of a billion here . . . can I fit that in my rangebag?

The idea of giving anything to Acorn after the "yeah they paid me to vote more than once" and "yeah we accept money from overseas and yeah we give money to Obama campaign, but Obama isn't using foreign campaign money" issues, it is hard to imagine anybody looking at money for Acorn as anything but . . . what it is. Criminal racketeering.


Hey, you don't have to convince me. I'm one of those radical small-government guys. While there are plenty of Republicans / folks-on-the-right who are waaaay too comfortable with the use & abuse of government power, modern day Democrats / folks-on-the-left make them look like rank amateurs. ACORN - and all who support them! - are definitely among the worst...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:34 am 
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LOL @ DeanC.

Yes, I'm afraid that is just what they will do.
We're going to run out of green ink.

..and 1911fan, I agree but unfortunately, accountability doesn't seem to be a word that is in the Washington DC vocabulary nowadays.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:27 am 
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Anyone see the 50 million dollar jet Citi-bank just bought?

Man that thing is SWEET! :twisted: :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:49 am 
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DeanC wrote:
Dee wrote:
How can you spend it if you don't have it?

Image


Here's a graph that should help.


Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:28 am 
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1911fan wrote:
Money managers can not charge a fee if they lose money, bring back the commission system. you get paid a % of your earnings.

You only get paid commissions if you make a trade. Your incentive is to make as many trades as possible regardless of the outcome.

Real money managers get paid an annual percentage fee of the total account value. Depending on what they do it is anywhere from .25% to 1.50%. Real money managers are hurting badly right now. If an account has lost 1/3 of it's value, the manager's revenues have just declined by 1/3.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:37 am 
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Dee wrote:
Quote:
a deficit-financed spending increase
Can anyone explain to me WTF that is? How can you spend it if you don't have it?

THAT'S WHAT OUR ECONOMY HAS BECOME! Debt is shown as profit, so the government can spend against it.

Watch this video!
Almost 16 minutes long. Spelled out so people can understand.
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse/chapter-16-fuzzy-numbers


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